I would like you to look again and see that there is nothing called “score indicator” in any game.
If you can say what it IS called, that might help clear up your misunderstanding of what it is for.
1 Like
I also noted that the score indicator button is turned on in all the bot games I play hummmm–
Give me an ‘E’
2 Likes
Interesting observation! But what’s that button actually called?
1 Like
score estimator is it exact name on my site here
3 Likes
Great, you proved someone wrong today at least!
Can you see how an “estimator” is different from a “score indicator”? It’s not this kind of thing:
Since there is no score in Go until both players pass. I’d like you to understand that part better. I see that you won another game:
Any questions about how that went?
Still not what the button is actually called, but I’ll give that one to you.
2 Likes
Score Indicator is just Ctrl+I (I is for Indicator)
1 Like
@benjito can we get a score indicator for this thread?
2 Likes
@dokbohm, Congrats that last victory of yours has sent you rating up to 62K.
Its great to see that you are improving. Keep up the good work!
1 Like
I have a General question to this thread.
I play correspondence almost exclusively; and I have to admit that I use the in game analysis quite heavily. even saving them in Personal or Malkovich. I was under the impression that as a beginner and “adult learner” it was helpful for pattern recognition. Yes I have noted that in a live game or OTB I have suffered. But isn’t that part of the process? As for the aforementioned “score Indicator” I guess I’d have to agree that its something I should stop using as its pure laziness and reliance on it even impacts my cross over ability in Tsumego. Should be said though that with experience you do learn how to work with and around its inaccuracies and apply it (does require some counting though).
It’s a crutch. Once you can walk without it, throw it away.
2 Likes
Using in-game analysis is fine if you don’t do it in every game, this way you discover variations that you wouldn’t be able to see otherwise. The best would be to read variations in your mind during games, and explore variations manually after the game during the review, if you are motivated to do that.
You can also try correspondence tournaments with analysis off, like this one:
3 Likes
Thanks, I’ll give that tournament a try and force myself into reading.
To more broadly answer this question…
I was a person who relied heavily on the analysis tools provided by OGS, and, in all honesty, they helped me learn a lot. However… what many people, myself included, don’t understand is just how lazy the human brain is.
When you begin using it in every game, you are essentially offloading the process of thought, analysis, planning, reading, and more, to an immediately gratifying thing. The brain locks this in, and while you will gain some pattern recognition, as well as deeper shape knowledge as a beginner, the trade-off later is that you end up stunting your own ability to play the game.
In my not-so-expert opinion, once any player hits about the 15kyu mark, they should start playing all their games without analysis tools. While I don’t have any data to prove this, and am going off my own experience, it is at about this level of play that the beginning stages of reading ability begin to develop as a go player. Even if one doesn’t have knowledge, and will make many mistakes while reading… those mistakes are actually quite important. Humans tend to learn more from mistakes than they do from successes.
The caveat to this is that if you, or anyone else, is playing games at, or around this level without the analysis tools, you need to be self-reviewing most of your games. That is where the analysis tools really shine. You can use them to point out mistakes in any preconceived ideas of success, or indeed failures. You can use the tools to simply play around with the different shapes presented and see if there are alternative ways to attack or defend something.
And, for any player of any rank, they should also seek to have games reviewed by stronger players, so that they can learn even more. I myself tend to learn even from doing game reviews of much weaker players. Sometimes, stronger players catch shapes and moves they would not normally come across, and are forced to think more critically about them. But for a weaker player getting the game review, it’s like having a lesson written up for you, or indeed a one-to-one lesson, where they can gain a lot of understanding very quickly.
The main moral of the story I’m trying to tell in all this is that it’s too easy to form dependencies on analysis tools, which, when formed, do a lot to potentially stunt a players growth.
1 Like
Thanks for the feedback guys, I’m inspired to let go of my crutch and to try walking on my own. Starting with that tournament and moving on from there.
2 Likes
Sorry @dokbohm, I didn’t really complete my thoughts about this. The score estimator is pretty random, but it especially doesn’t mean anything when you don’t know how to finish a game. Looking at that one you won:
You did great overall, but I see that at the end you played 14 nonsense moves like this:
Do you see how that stone has no hope of surviving? What were you trying to do?
i just lucky with a couple of snakes that i could extend never thought it would result in an enclosure of all those stones that lead to a win --pure luck that was it - and my opponent not goinf after the corners that for sure
While your observation is correct of course, your question I believe is then based on a (very common) misconception: The idea that there was some Go-related intention or purpose.
Most of these nonsense moves were played almost instantly and I’m pretty sure they do serve a more general and not specifically Go-related purpose. Namely: “killing time” and “getting attention from others”.