Using leela zero to estimate win probability of a board


#21

You do realize Amazon does not just give you cloud servers for free right? And they can’t run this on a cheap micro instance either, those things have as much computing power as your average microwave owen while GO analysis melts even my gen 7 i7 with GTX1050… We all want something for nothing, but this just ain’t going to happen…


#22

Still happening sometimes. I teach and been teached (even by pros) always for free -1 example.


#23

i hope you also realize that facebook is free, google is free, whatsapp is free, and for argument sake the very site you are playing go is free. Talk about computing power.

In economics, you can count all your material cost, labour cost, hardware cost and interest but ultimately what determine price is how much the other guy is selling it across the road, ie, COMPETITION.


#24

None of those things are free. Mostly you pay for them with your meta data that they can on sell to advertisers.
In the case of ogs, the site supporters pay enough to cover for the users that want to play for ‘free’ the service still isn’t free it’s just that some people cover the fees for others.


#25

Of course, that’s why I also said " they can put ads on their site or sell merchandise or whatever but i am not paying."

Generating revenue is way more than just charging people money.


#26

If you truly believe that you are not paying for fakebook, google and whatscrapp then I’ve got a fantastic investment for you to become a millionaire in two short weeks … :rofl:


#27

Millionaire only? Needs some updates when companies run trillion (million of million)


#28

Is it really that hard to understand? Someone making money off me (yes, I do realize they are selling my data, thank you) is not the same as me paying out of my pocket.

I never say they can survive on water only or they should not make money. I just said good luck to them trying to get me to pay.


#30

Guys - be excellent to each other.

It is fine to not want to pay for something because one thinks it is not worth it. But someone mentioned a similar site that had to close due to financial problems and I doubt ads on a very specific website like that pay the running costs - so I think it is fair to charge for it.

I am in no way related to that website and I would likely not pay for it either (because I can just run Leelaz offline).


#31

Even if @MrAlex is a skillful troller (as a compliment), the counter examples were just badly chosen.
Luckily there are still people today doing things for free.


#32

That made me rethink and withdraw my previous post which was just ironic without bringing any value to the table.

Agree.


#33

hi andy,

not sure if this is still relevant to you, but:

  • you can still download & use the old leela you mentioned. it works just fine and is very, very strong. much stronger than you will ever need - depending on your strength of course, but unless you’re a 5dan, it will be just fine for you.

  • if you want to you can also try lizzie + leela zero. the zero version is a completely new one, modelled after alphago zero. but it is a little trickier to get the two up and running together. should be doable under windows (I use the linux version and had to do a lot of compiling and stuff).

personally, I like the old Leela interface better for analyzing. it is very intuitive, and there are only a few keys you need to know: turn on analysis, show evaluation graph, show analysis window, show best moves. They are all under Tools menu, so easy to find. Under win you just download your SGF from the game you want to analyze and open it with Leela. That’s all. I do it with almost every game and it is very interesting to see where I went wrong.

Lizzie is good of course, but you cannot (well at least I couldn’t) open an SGF directly, you need to open the Lizzie screen and press “o” to load it manually.

Good luck and have fun analyzing.


#34

Thank you so much.i will definitely give it a try.


#35

The latest sabaki together with leela-zero provides the interface similar to old leela. And it can automatically add variations into sgf.


#36

I tried it and it is indeed very easy to use, just one problem.

When I want to analyze the whole game, to see which move I made a mistake, what I am doing now is to do it one move at a time, wait for about 30 seconds for the computer to analyze, then move ahead another step, wait for another 30 seconds, …

I figured if i keep doing it this way, it would take me over an hour sitting in front of the computer. is there a way for the computer to analyze every move by itself?


#37

What you are looking for is GoReviewPartner.

If you, like me, don’t have a strong machine for analysis, you can also try AI Sensei. It was already linked earlier in this thread, but not well received because it is not free. It also won’t allow you to explore any other variations beyond the ones it suggests to you. But it does give you a better overview (ordered list) of your worst blunders :slight_smile:


#38

Yes.
What I do is to start analysis from the end of the game and step back to the start by ten moves at a time, waiting just a second or two between clicks.
This gives me a preview of the win rate chart in about a minute or so:

Then I start exploring moves from the beginning, having a clearer idea of what deserves best attention.
Usually looking at suggested moves and possible variations keeps me occupied just enough to let Leela do its work. But, yes, it’s about an hour to review a whole game.


#39

Thanks. Will look in to that.

That’s a clever shortcut. Thanks


#40

In lizzie you can just hit a. Then you are given the option of how many playouts you want per move (more is better but takes more time), I usually just go with 100 for the first run.


#41

Sorry to revive an old thread.

In case someone missed it in the other thread, this is exactly what I am looking for. Leela in cloud based web format.

https://deepleela.com/