Vacation time and respecting others

They are not YOUR games. You are sharing them. They belong just as much to the person who required a pause that is afforded to them by the site rules because of real life issues.

Maybe I am applying some intention that isn’t there… but … As a guy who just started using the site, you talking about the policies that are tempting you is insane.

To talk about what you are tempted to do when you are entitled to little more than an opinion to add to the pile… ask for whatever you want, but understand you are one of thousands of users and one of the newest one at that. User feedback is great but you seem to be getting dangerously close to thinking you are owed something.

I guess I better add “one moderator’s opinion”. Note that this isn’t an official OGS opinion, but it is the opinion of someone who helps police the rules.

The rules are currently that you are entitled to take vacation from your games.

There is no obligation to explain why you are doing this, and there are no limitations on under what conditions you should or should not do it.

It is not “rude” to take vacation.

Tournaments are plagued by this problem: people make the mistake of thinking that tournaments will proceed at a non-vacation speed when in reality people do take vacation from time to time.

As with any principle, this can break if it is taken to extremes. If a person joins every tourney on the site, and then takes 4 months vacation, this would be viewed as “needing to be dealt with”.

But as a day-to-day consideration, all players should be aware that their opponent may take vacation from time to time and this is perfectly normal.

If you think it is the wrong policy, you should start a thread about “can we change vacation policy so tournies go faster?”.

The last time this happened the conclusion was that it is entirely within the power of Tourney Directors to include in their rules that this is a “no vacation” tourney and disqualify people who don’t follow that rule.

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Does it really matter when Gia is joined the site? If someone came and was always a part of the site, that could be a valid argument, but it shouldn’t matter when Gia joined for Gia to be able to say their opinion and what they felt should change. Just because one person says something doesn’t mean it will happen, and that doesn’t change no matter how long they are part of the site.

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How new you are at the site is one of the inputs into how much experience you have with how things work and what the “community expectations” are.

This doesn’t mean that a new person’s opinion is not valid, but it does mean that a new person might be best advised to be circumspect with strong opinions in case they are missing something important that experience here would have told them.

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Technically Gia has played there first game on the site in Jan 2019 and been an active participant since December. Seeing as many join for the coronavirus and other reasons, I would argue that Gia’s argument would be more valid than many other people’s based on this. I could come up with a list of people who have joined in February if you wanted me to. I could even do March. Plenty of people have joined the site after Gia.

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It’s a bit hard for me to find the right words to express my thoughts properly. I think correspondence takes root in correspondence by mail. Where people would send moves by mail and it was very slow, right, so much slow that it didn’t matter how long it takes, 10 years or 15 years. And this attitude translates to online correspondence as well. People treat it as a part of their life where they, for example, play a couple of moves after coming home from work. And it doesn’t matter how long it takes because it’s the process and not the ending that matters. And therefore it doesn’t matter if you or your opponent use vacation time if they feel the need. There’s nothing disrespectful about that. So for these games the right attitude is not caring how long they take.
Look at this great spirit:

That’s the proper correspondence attitude.
But of course, with internet and with fast paced lives a lot of people don’t have this attitude. They essentially treat correspondence as long live game. They want opponent to respond quickly and they want the games to end in a timely manner. If you see 2d+8h time controls that’s probably them.

It’d be great for you to change your attitude towards usual 3d+1d and longer games and treat them as essentially limitless. You can play other faster games to pass time. No one can change their thinking simply like that, of course.

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There’s even a group for players who want Correspondence to be Fast/Pseudo Live.

You can find people who probably won’t “vacation” your games there :slight_smile: (And tournies likewise)

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You call it “great spirit”. That is just a different opinion. Some people like the game to go faster, others want it to go slower. Just like how some people prefer ice cream and some prefer cake. It really doesn’t matter what I am arguing about, but there is not a “right or wrong” opinion in this question. There will always be the people who like it fast and the people who like it slow. That isn’t going to change. If the people who want the correspondence games slower, that is a valid argument. If the people who want the correspondence games faster, have a valid argument for this. There isn’t a right or a wrong, merely two opinions that are different from each other. There are solutions for both, but when they overlap in the middle, you need to get to a compromise. You can’t fix it for one while making it much worse for the other, so you have to find some middle ground. It won’t make either side 100% happy, but it won’t cause either side to be 100% dissatisfied either. That is the best way to fix it for all in the overlapping cases.

Everyting @Haze_with_a_Z is true BUT that does not mean that “going on vacation is disrespectful”.

In fact, what it currently means is that people who want vacation-free games need to find like minded people and play with them. One mechanism for that is the group I linked to.

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I think that part of the argument was that the person/people were doing multiple live games while on vacation and having a couple hundred games sitting paused. @Gia was saying that it wasn’t bad to do one or two live games, but Gia didn’t like someone doing multiple live games or live tournaments when they were on vacation with a bunch of games paused at the vacation person’s turn.

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It’s important to be clear about what is an exception and what is a principle.

If one person is abusing a principle you report it. If one person is starting hundreds of games and vacationing them, that is an exception.

It doesn’t extend from an exception to a principle such as “vactioning games is disrespectful”.

That assertion is false. It is not “how things work around here”.

Of course we can “talk about changing how things work around here”, but that would be the starting point for a discussion, not a fact.

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Addressing the thread title directly:

Generally speaking I do not feel that vacation use is disrespectful. It is part of the site and as mentioned above, effectively part of the agreed game-clock.

However; when people look at tournament details they are not shown an estimate of how long it might take. They see only the time settings and this is effectively misleading unless you are familiar with OGS’ generous vacation setup.

Moreover, when I see a person using vacation for less than 24hrs on a regular basis, I find it hard to believe that this is what vacation is intended for. The very name, ‘Vacation’. Implies something more substantial. If it is simply used to delay games on a regular basis then I DO find it disrespectful albeit not against the rules. I would like to see vacation use limited to a minimum. eg. 2 days (minimum) taken off your allowance each time you trigger it regardless of how long you use it for.

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WRT to a player playing a game while on vacation…

if you are playing a correspondence game where they are allowed 1 day per move, and they have access to internet on their vacation for ~1 hr, they are NOT wrong to play a live game and leave the corr games alone.

They have 1 day to consider the move, not 1 hr. Vacation is not a ban from the site, it is an acknowledgement that life goes on beyond the site… just because they like go and find time enough to play a live game does not mean they have the time that they are afforded for their next turn of correspondence.

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I’ll add last and perhaps only time I had to take vacation… my rate of play actually went up xD

It seems my point was missed by many.

I’m not saying vacation is disrespectful in all cases. I specifically mention people who hoard correspondence games with no intention of finishing them and instead play live games. My guess is they are hoarders and easily bored and yes I still don’t like this. If it’s not frowned upon, well, I can still find wrong something that is generally acceptable.

@VicktorVauhn, “silly”, “insane”, you seem to feel free to use these kinds of words against me and only me, and it’s not the first time either. I don’t know why you feel so strongly that you have to strong-arm me when you don’t like what I say (would it make a difference if I were Bob and not Gia?), but I’m not going to respond to you any more.

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As someone whose constantly had tens of ongoing corr games for over 5 years, i use the vacation when i’m unable to play moves due [insert reason]

I actually think it would be more disrespectful if i would just let my games timeout every time when something else happens in my life.

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If those reasons occur on a weekly basis then it’s more reasonable to describe this as ‘over committing’.

What’s the point of a vacation feature that simply allows people to play 25% more games 25% more slowly?

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Then the issue isn’t vacation time, the issue is mass time outs.

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I guess they don’t want to time out either.
They want to take the game/ tournament because it’s there, and then put it aside because live games are shinier.

I can see what you’re getting at but the playing of live games doesn’t necessarily demonstrate the abandonment or neglect of existing correspondence games…

I usually like to play as per the defaults. ie. live games with analysis off and correspondence with analysis on. This means that I might have time for a blitz game during my lunch break on my phone but not have time to study an intense correspondence game with analysis on my laptop.

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