Vacation time and respecting others

Could a mod please split this thread. I don’t want to see the original topic derailed by a wall of off-topic text.

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It all has something to do with respecting others. Even if we got sidetracked away from vaca time. Endgames have to do with respecting others. I could delete my posts if it is easier too. I think my posts may have been the biggest contributor to it getting sidetracked.

No. You are right. There is an ambiguity in the thread title.

Is it the topic of “Vacation time” and the topic of “Respecting Others” or is it the topic of “Vacation time and it’s relevance to respecting others”? and that’s all I have time for.

My point is in the first post and my issue is about people hoarding games and then leaving them on vacation, thus not respecting others.
I would like to keep that on topic.
@Haze_with_a_Z Let’s leave it as it is and keep on topic from now on.

Would you like me to
A. delete my off topic posts
B. request that a moderator moves them

And apologies from me for OT replies.

On topic, is it a reportable offence to play live games while on vacation? I feel it should be.

Do you report these people? What did mods say? Is there guidance on the use of vacation?

I do feel that vacation is for actual holidays or life events that mean you won’t be able to play Go. If you are able to play Go while using vacation then surely you don’t really need to be using it.

But I’m happy to learn about why people do it and what justifications there are.

Maybe vacation could be set to automatically switch off when you log in/play a move/start a new game or something

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I guess if I was theoretically going on a trip to NYC with everything open, and I was going to be busy so I went on vaca mode. At some point during the day/at night, I got some free time to play a game(for any old reason, I don’t care why). I decided to play a live game so I could feel accomplished(making this up of course) or so I could actually finish it unlike my correspondence games. I then am busy after doing these live games so I can’t leave my vacation.

One thing that I could do instead is I could play correspondence games so that they still make some progress instead of sitting for this vacation/trip while I play live games.

This is just a scenario, and what could’ve been done differently. This is not something that actually occurred with me.

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I don’t know if it’s a reportable offense and I haven’t seen any official stance, maybe I’ve missed it though.

I did report once, but I didn’t get any feedback. (My guess is a nudge was given, which did resolve the issue at the time.) So, I don’t really know. I’m the kind of person that gives and expects feedback so we are all on the same page, but who knows?

I don’t know about automatic turning off, it would need more fine tuning than solve things.

I would like the following rules:

  • No entering site-wide tournaments if on vacation and not being allowed to go on vacation for the duration of each game (but can go on vacation for individual games and of course custom tournaments can be organized where they can play for centuries if they want to). Only pausing allowed, which the other player can accept or not.
  • No entering any tournaments if you were disqualified at least once in the last 30 days.
  • In any tournament, having the option to report opponent who abuses vacation (let’s say 5 live games in 2 days). The first two could be automatic and only this manual, since someone would have to become irritating to warranty a report.

I could think of lots of other microrules, but these would be enough for me. And they seem easy to implement.

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I wouldn’t report someone who played a couple of live games during vacation.
I would report someone who entered live tournaments during vacation or plays consistently every day while on vacation.
If they do either, they choose to keep me specifically waiting which is disrespectful of my time.

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I play fast correspondence games mostly, I usually have made games with clocks anticipating that each person makes at least 1 if not more move per day, which usually ends up being a hand full of moves per day.

but vacation is a thing on this site. You know about it ahead of time, you agreed to it… you can just play live games or do whatever else you want… but if you choose to play OGS correspondence games it is silly to complain.

Correspondence games, by nature, take longer then life is realistically planable for.
Things change, I’ve had to use vacation when being sent out of country on a weeks notice… There are plenty of other legit reasons as well, this site has thousands of users and has been up for years, we are not going to list or even try to predict possible reasons.

I don’t see what their game count has to do with it, in fact… if you are so angered by the inactivity, start another game. I personally don’t play more than 4 at a time but people are welcome to have many more than that, and if they are not timing out, it is not really your concern.

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Also, I’m tempted to ask for a cap on simultaneous games, but maybe most people with 200 correspondence games at the same time manage just fine and it would be an overkill.

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Also, it is my concern when there is one-sided freezing of my games.

And you missed my point.

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vacation is a thing on this site. You know about it ahead of time, you agreed to it

I agree with this. But hey, I barely ever play correspondence so my opinion isn’t really important.

I just don’t want to see users attacked when they’re not cheating / insulting / breaking other rules.

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They are not YOUR games. You are sharing them. They belong just as much to the person who required a pause that is afforded to them by the site rules because of real life issues.

Maybe I am applying some intention that isn’t there… but … As a guy who just started using the site, you talking about the policies that are tempting you is insane.

To talk about what you are tempted to do when you are entitled to little more than an opinion to add to the pile… ask for whatever you want, but understand you are one of thousands of users and one of the newest one at that. User feedback is great but you seem to be getting dangerously close to thinking you are owed something.

I guess I better add “one moderator’s opinion”. Note that this isn’t an official OGS opinion, but it is the opinion of someone who helps police the rules.

The rules are currently that you are entitled to take vacation from your games.

There is no obligation to explain why you are doing this, and there are no limitations on under what conditions you should or should not do it.

It is not “rude” to take vacation.

Tournaments are plagued by this problem: people make the mistake of thinking that tournaments will proceed at a non-vacation speed when in reality people do take vacation from time to time.

As with any principle, this can break if it is taken to extremes. If a person joins every tourney on the site, and then takes 4 months vacation, this would be viewed as “needing to be dealt with”.

But as a day-to-day consideration, all players should be aware that their opponent may take vacation from time to time and this is perfectly normal.

If you think it is the wrong policy, you should start a thread about “can we change vacation policy so tournies go faster?”.

The last time this happened the conclusion was that it is entirely within the power of Tourney Directors to include in their rules that this is a “no vacation” tourney and disqualify people who don’t follow that rule.

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Does it really matter when Gia is joined the site? If someone came and was always a part of the site, that could be a valid argument, but it shouldn’t matter when Gia joined for Gia to be able to say their opinion and what they felt should change. Just because one person says something doesn’t mean it will happen, and that doesn’t change no matter how long they are part of the site.

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How new you are at the site is one of the inputs into how much experience you have with how things work and what the “community expectations” are.

This doesn’t mean that a new person’s opinion is not valid, but it does mean that a new person might be best advised to be circumspect with strong opinions in case they are missing something important that experience here would have told them.

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Technically Gia has played there first game on the site in Jan 2019 and been an active participant since December. Seeing as many join for the coronavirus and other reasons, I would argue that Gia’s argument would be more valid than many other people’s based on this. I could come up with a list of people who have joined in February if you wanted me to. I could even do March. Plenty of people have joined the site after Gia.

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It’s a bit hard for me to find the right words to express my thoughts properly. I think correspondence takes root in correspondence by mail. Where people would send moves by mail and it was very slow, right, so much slow that it didn’t matter how long it takes, 10 years or 15 years. And this attitude translates to online correspondence as well. People treat it as a part of their life where they, for example, play a couple of moves after coming home from work. And it doesn’t matter how long it takes because it’s the process and not the ending that matters. And therefore it doesn’t matter if you or your opponent use vacation time if they feel the need. There’s nothing disrespectful about that. So for these games the right attitude is not caring how long they take.
Look at this great spirit:

That’s the proper correspondence attitude.
But of course, with internet and with fast paced lives a lot of people don’t have this attitude. They essentially treat correspondence as long live game. They want opponent to respond quickly and they want the games to end in a timely manner. If you see 2d+8h time controls that’s probably them.

It’d be great for you to change your attitude towards usual 3d+1d and longer games and treat them as essentially limitless. You can play other faster games to pass time. No one can change their thinking simply like that, of course.

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There’s even a group for players who want Correspondence to be Fast/Pseudo Live.

You can find people who probably won’t “vacation” your games there :slight_smile: (And tournies likewise)

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