I find 3-4 stones really hard to deal with.
Unlike 4-4, there seem to be no basic sort of joseki that you can manage with as a beginner.
I’m searching for the basic tools I need to deal with it.
So I came across this:
http://josekipedia.com/#path:qdodldqcrcpdqerbqbpcrasbscpfqfpgrh
How is this OK for white?
okay, just for the record I hate josekipedia. From my point of view, it does more damage than good. There are usually no good explanations, the whole thing is very confusing, and some of the variations are plain bad.
Yes, the pincer variations of 3-4 can get quite complicated, but there are many peacefull simple solutions. What I personally (but mind you I am barely a SDK) find the most usefull for joseki is a free android app called BW-joseki. It is far from perfect! But provides some explanations for the moves and sometimes even explanations/punishements of wrong moves (which I would love to see in oh so many cases). The variation above is listed as inferior for white in this app (if you were wondering)
Just remember when studying joseki, do not just learn a joseki to play everywhere, but try to choose a joseki to go with a whole board. Joseki is equal for both players only locally. There is always a good joseki and “bad” joseki to go with the rest of the board. I would even recommend having the app open sometimes when playing (prefferably when playing a friendly - not some ranked tournament - match) and checking a few possible results and choosing which to go for to develop your potential. Some might consider it sort of cheating I guess, but how else to learn good joseki practice, than by trying them out in games? Pure memorization does not work for everyone…
If you don’t have an android, I believe http://eidogo.com/ uses the same database as BW joseki. It’s one down side is that it only displays joseki in the top right corner whereas the app can rotate to any corner and side.
Thanks for the pointers!
I’m glad there is an alternative to josekipedia, because it certainly seems to be a hit and miss way to learn
On this topic, it is quite clear what is and what is not allowed/cheating:
Just as a side note: I sometimes do use some Joseki help in the Fuseki part of the game, and my current favourite is “Waltheri’s Go Pattern Search” — here with part of the Joseki shown in the first link:
<edit> of course only in corr. games </edit>
I would argue there are basic joseki for the 3-4 point, it’s just that players don’t choose them as often as for 4-4, for whatever reason.
Josekipedia is a lot more updated than Eidogo. Eidogo does not have many variations considered standard now. Minus some vaguely defined good/bad variations and some twats deleting whole variations or posting improperly labelled question moves, Josekipedia is generally very reliable.
This is a fun way to learn joseki: http://www.josekifarm.com/
I will not vouch 100% for how up to date it is and I certainly wouldnt count it as study, but it seems to mostly use Kogos dictionary. There are a lot of simple 3-4 point joseki in there, and it does build muscle memory.
Doesnt help with evaluating the joseki in the context of whole board position, but is a fun way to pass a commute.
Yeah - someone told me that after I fell into a trap using Eidogo - that’s why I started using Josekipedia!
I would recommend to look at the AlphaGo vs. AlphaGo games. While those games are incredibly complicated, the joseki part is surprisingly very simple and seldom involves pincers.
If you are the one approaching your opponent’s 3-4 point and he/she chooses to pincer, then there is no recipe to keep the joseki simple. One interesting alternative you could try is to just tenuki. Then it’s up to your opponent to deal with the situation, and usually 2 more moves would be required to completely handle your approach stone.
Another choice is to leave the 3-4 point alone and let your opponent build a shimari. In the meantime you get two moves elsewhere.
Awesome idea! (Of course, I guess I have to keep an eye on the value of the shimari in a framework or something, but it’s definitely a great option to have in mind!)
Generally in the opening you’ll be hard pressed to find a move more valuable than making or taking away a shimari…
… which could be one of the moves elsewhere, and still a free one to go?
@BHydden allow me to disagree with your statement. Common openings such as Chinese, small Chinese or Kobayashi are all examples where a shimari is not the priority, and other moves are considered just as valuable.
That said, a shimari is definitely a large move. With 4 corners on the board, it is perfectly acceptable to let your opponent build two shimaris, and build two for yourself. Here too the AlphaGo vs. AlphaGo games are a good reference.
Chinese and Kobayashi aren’t very good examples, since both “enclose” the corner indirectly, by preparing to punish normal approaches to the open 3-4. They both very much prioritise the open 3-4, one could say they are centered around it.
@lideci if you consider that any move played between the 3rd and 9th line is an enclosure - direct or indirect - then sure, it becomes difficult to find a move more valuable than any of these 
I am not sure what you mean by “prioritize the open 3-4”. If you search those fuseki on Waltheri’s Go Pattern Search (mentioned by @trohde), you’ll find out that there are a lot more options for white than just preventing a shimari (which is the topic discussed here).
This:
is the video that lept to mind when BHyden observed that generally making or preventing a shimari is generally the most valuable thing to do. In that lesson, which I had only just seen the day before, I learned that taking away the shimari in the low chinese is the bad thing to do.
That being said, making your own shimari is one of the valid options, though more passive.
And all that being said, I also understood BHyden’s “generally” to mean “unless a tricky fuseki is in play”.
So I can relate both to the idea that “generally shimaris are good” and also “there are specific times where they are a trap”.
GaJ
Thanks for the reference. I’m very interested in learning more about the Chinese fuseki, as it seems especially difficult for White to handle.
Sorry if I am being too obvious 
, but maybe just to make it clear to beginners who might also read this thread.
Taking away a shimari is good. But that does not mean it’s good ALWAYS. It’s not really a specific tricky fuseki thing, but rather look at the context thing. In the example above, white is taking away a shimari but at the expense of creating weak or enclosed group because black’s R9 is already in place loosely pincering white’s approach and in way of white’s extension and potential developement, while there are larger and more open sides still. Thus it’s bad. (It’s sort of “Envy too much” move)
At least that is my understanding of the situation. In any way the point I was trying to make is not to learn that one is not supposed to approach small chinese or whatever fuseki from the inside, but rather to try and find the logic behind the idea… 