What is the remedy for overconcentrated stones?

More often than not, a major factor when I lose a game is that my stones got overconcentrated. Usually ending with a dead dragon or two.

I can think that’s it’s probably a. I don’t read strongly enough b. I don’t look at the overall board and focus too locally c. I don’t have a good grasp of when something isn’t worth adding more good stones after bad.

When I go down that path, I can’t shift gears, it’s like an avalanche, it takes my whole game with it.

When is the time to realize I’m tying my stones into knots and it’s time to reset and change tactics?

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It’s a balancing act, and like balancing, it takes a lot of practice to get a feel for it. Tsumego certainly might help to find out whether a group can still live or is already dead.

Perhaps try considering with each move whether your group needs it to stay alive or not. If the group doesn’t need it to stay alive, then you can probably find a larger move somewhere else. If you’re attacking, try to consider whether your opponent is alive yet. If they’re alive, it’s not worth attacking anymore, and you should focus elsewhere.

Some other thing that you should definitely avoid doing is removing aji: if you feel your group is already dead, move away from it. It may later become useful again, for example since you can threaten to connect it to the outside, then the opponent will still kill the stones, but you get an outside stone in return. If you play too long, your opponent ends up fixing all their insecurities around your dead group, and you can’t use it anymore (and gained nothing, since the group will still be dead).

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Oh that’s a good point, aji is not on my mind at all. I certainly need to work on that.

There is no simple answer. Stones may be overconcentrated because

  1. you added a move to a group which is already safe
  2. or you had bad shape (e.g. hane at the head of two stones, or cutting points, or potential cutting points) so that your opponent got forcing moves
  3. or you didn’t defend the group enough, so your opponent got forcing moves.

Now how do you know if your group is safe enough, or needs defense?
→ Game experience, reading and tsumego.

How to make better shapes?
→ Review your games and find out which shapes were wrong. Look at games by stronger players and fill your mind with good shapes.

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Bad shape… Yes I tend to do that.

(I mean everything you said yes, but bad shape especially)

I think if you died then you weren’t over concentrated. Over concentration happens when you keep securing an already safe territory.

When you have an abundance of stones in a local area and they still die, bad shape is certainly going to be the first thing you evaluate.

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“overconcentrated” I mean something like what happened here

I pile on my stones in knots that don’t work and the whole thing dies. I end up chasing the cuts and achieve nothing.

Maybe not strictly “overconcentrated” as used in Go.

But I understand what you mean, that’s also a perspective to look into.

The source of your problems is indeed bad shapes. For instance

shape1

Here you got hane’d at the head of three stones. This is not as severe as hane at the head of two stones but still you should defend your stones, the shape move being A.

shape2

Here you are inviting your opponent to cut your one-space jump. You stone Q16 is isolated from R12 anyway, you can’t connect them, so for the moment ignore R12 and defend the most important stone Q16 (the one in the corner). The shape move is A.

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I looked over your example game vs Dou2021 and these were my impressions

  1. Your main style of play seems to be “Capture Go” rather than focusing on slowly expanding your potential over the whole board, or following the various stages of the game. There’s nothing wrong with that per-se, it’s just that this particular style is very advanced, and requires one to juggle a lot of various SDK skills to do it effectively. Bottom line - rather than playing moves to capture/kill your opponents groups, try to use forcing moves to allow your groups to expand in a direction-of-play that gives you a territorial advantage down the road, or allows you to expand your potential more efficiently than your opponent

  2. There were several times in the game where I saw you “fattening up the pig” and playing more stones on a group that I already assumed was dead. If you do find yourself in a capturing race, take a look at your opponent’s liberties vs yours, and if they’re ahead by 1 or 2, just assume those groups are dead, and play sente moves elsewhere that might give you an advantage.

  3. in terms of nuts-and-bolts things you could study I would recommend focusing more on

  • settling your stones
  • playing a balanced opening
  • paying more attention to the various stages of the game, i.e. the different ways you can get an advantage in the Opening or Early Midgame by ignoring local threats and playing bigger moves to claim potential elsewhere

my 2 cents

hope this helps

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An important topic for SDK players is speed/tempo/sente/gote. Avoid to keep playing too long in a local area when it’s not really needed. Responding to your opponent when it’s not really needed is called “puppy go” (following your opponent around the board). Taking sente when it’s due is mostly a concern of players ~10k - low dan (i.e. mostly SDK players).

Then there is shape. Having bad shape means that your shape keeps having defects, even if you respond to your opponent poking at those weaknesses. I think that shape is a concern of players ~15k up to about pro level.

Overconcentration means not getting enough territory in relation to the number of moves you spent to take that territory (efficiency). Overconcentration is related to points and tempo. I think that overconcentration is mostly a concern in the early game for players ~3k and stronger.

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You let your groups get cut.

You want to keep your stones connected, while cutting your opponents.

Here you have one groupimage

Now you have two image

Now you have 3 image

Until you know FOR SURE that a group is alive, do not tenuki. The only player that can kill your groups, is you (either by tenuki or bad life+death).

When you played this move, you effectively said "I no longer care abouot those 3 white stonesimage

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Avoiding overconcentration is the art of the tenuki. Since I still struggle with that, I have nothing to add to the excellent comments already made, except for one psychological observation.

You have to believe in yourself before you step out and do it. “I think the tenuki is worth more than the position I am leaving,” I may tell myself, but I need to believe that and try it. I have found the believing part almost as hard as identifying the tenuki. Remember that, if it really is good, your opponent may follow you, allowing you to come back to the position later, when the surrounding circumstances are more favorable. This thought may take away some of the fear of trying.

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  1. Will the group die or be forced to run away if my opponent gets two moves in a row?
  2. Can my group be cut?

If no to both, then you can tenuki.

The “more points elsewhere” thing kinda doesn’t matter. It matters if you’re high dan or pro, but, I still don’t even bother with that deep of an analysis of my games.

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Good analysis. Nothing more to say, play with more composure, take more time to see other moves and change attitude.
Have patience, one don’t change in one game.

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I scan through your games this year, and I find you play some of these patterns quite often (for easy to understand, your color will always be black in these examples)

  1. The L-turn (not necessary in the corner, but some on the sides)
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your opinion on the local followup move from your opponent if you tenuki? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  2. The push down from above (usually on the side, a couple of them toward the corner)
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your opinion on the local followup move from your opponent if you tenuki? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  3. Push into small knight’s (both near the corners, and on the sides)
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it a risky move? What’s your opinion on the local followup move from your opponent if you tenuki? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  4. Getting slow pushed from the opponent
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is your shape already solid? What’s your local followup move? Can you tenuki? What’s your opponent’s followup move if you tenuki?

  5. Elephant eye gets poked and pushed
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? What’s your local followup? Can you tenuki? What’s your opponent’s followup if you tenuki?

  6. Followup of the kosumi gets pushed
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your opinion on the local followup move from your opponent? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  7. Kosumi gets pushed with a kosumi
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your opinion on the local followup move from your opponent if you tenuki? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  8. Your large knight gets “poked”
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your opinion on the local followup move from your opponent if you tenuki? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  9. poking a disconnected L
    圖片
    What do you think about your opponent’s shape? Is it solid? Can your opponent tenuki? What’s your followup move locally if your opponent tenuki?

  10. Knight’s shape gets cut
    圖片
    What do you do when your knight’s shape gets cut? Can you tenuki? What’s your opponent’s next move when you tenuki?

  11. follow up from knight’s shape gets cut
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? What’s the difference compared to the previous one? Can you tenuki? What’s your opponent’s next move when you tenuki? What’s your next move if your opponent tenuki?

  12. Poking opponent’s kosumi and your opponent’s connect
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your next move locally?

  13. slide down from an empty triangle
    圖片
    Followup the previous shape, what do you think about black’s slide down? What’s your opponent’s followup? Can your opponent just tenuki?

  14. Escape potential ladder
    圖片
    What’s your opinion about how to escape a potential ladder? What can black do to escape it if you gets to play next?

  15. Escape ladder by slide
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it still in danger? What’s your opponent’s local followup if you tenuki? What your next local move if your opponent tenuki?

  16. empty triangle pushing opponent’s knight
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? It’s linked to the previous shape, but with different move sequence. What if it is framed as a followup for escaping a ladder?

  17. followup from the ladder escape
    圖片
    Compare this shape with the previous one, is it a solid shape? What your opponent’s followup if you tenuki? Do you still need to play a local followup if your opponent tenuki? Can you punish it if your opponent tenuki?

  18. knight’s move gets poked but extend from the outside
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Can you tenuki? What’s your opinion of your opponent’s followup if you tenuki?

  19. multiple cut points surround
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it solid? What’s your opinion of your opponent’s followup if you tenuki? What’s your next move if your opponent teniki, is it a net or your opponent can still escape or fight?

  20. Saving one stone or save the shape
    圖片
    One of the stone gets atari, should black connect to save this one stone? What if you tenuki, what’s your opponent’s next move besides take the stone? Can you still save the shape after your opponent’s next move if you tenuki?

  21. tiny table
    圖片
    What do you think about this shape? Is it over concentrated? What does it compare to the bamboo joint?

And finally I find that you often played super large knight or 3 space jump even after fuseki in the mid-game


What’s their weakness? If they get split in the middle, what are your followup moves for them? Is it the same as you approach them, but your opponent tenuki? So if you approach your opponent and they tenuki, what’s your followup?

A lot of time, if you change the perspective and think of the position not just in the shape, but with different context, you might be able to find a better answer.

Many of your overconcentrated issue starts from you answer the local move unnecessarily or trying to save a bad respond and making the issue worse. More often than not, understand how to punish your opponent’s tenuki is crucial. But in order to do that, always ask yourself what’s the worst can happen if tenuki. A lot of time, the damage of not answering locally isn’t as severe as you think.

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I will look into that in depth tonight, most of those I hadn’t even realized it’s basically the same mistake.

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Hi Gia

I was watching this 1dan vs 1 dan game and I thought that this might be a good game for you to review and study in terms of wrapping your mind around a different play-style.

As you are watching it, I encourage you to pay attention to each move, and identify whether

  • it’s a sente move
  • it’s a gote move
  • it’s a move specifically meant to settle the stones in that area so that tenuki is more likely

I thought it was a really interesting game because both players focused on the efficiencies available at each stage rather than attacking each other aggressively or chasing weak groups. Both sides also showed very good use of shape moves. A few more interesting bits to notice:

Move 61: Black reads that White is threatening to make a big moyo on the bottom and plays a smart move to disrupt it. When White responds with a threatening move (62) Black stays calm, and keeps their stones connected by making forcing moves.

Move 109: Black disrupts White’s potential center moyo. When White tries to fence Black in, Black plays smart moves and manages to stay connected.

It’s a useful exercise in terms of seeing the opportunities on the board. Hope this helps.

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