What to do against score cheating

I don’t really see the problem. Just only allow the option outside of (live) tournaments?

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Yeah, I guess I figured that’s harder than it sounds? Otherwise why didn’t we do it already? :man_shrugging:

The mod discussion of this that I remember concluded that too many players would troll the button.

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But…

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The button idea is appealing, and I don’t remember what my old position on it was. However, implementation of it would need to be eyes wide open. Some ordinary, angry escapers and stallers would probably use it reflexively to enhance their retaliation, and yes, they would be self-reporters. However, it would also open a wonderful field of opportunity to persistent score-cheating trolls who could use the button whenever they encountered someone who knew how to reset the score. Those trolls don’t care about self-reporting; they just create a new account.

If I’m going to run into a score cheater, I want to pause the game; it saves me the stress of keeping the game going while waiting for a mod. Whether the score cheater or I press the pause button, does not matter to me.

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I never like the reason of not implementing because trolls might abuse it, when the feature itself would be very beneficial for the regular users (who are the vast majority).

“Let’s get this nice thing for people, that makes their enjoyment of the site better and their experience with cheaters less stressful.”

“But what if trolls start abusing it?”

“Ah yeah, let’s not do it then.”

It’s just weird to me. Furthermore, trolls abusing the pause function a) get banned, and b) likely only will be a minor annoyance to the moderators. For most players, they’d just encounter a weird game that is paused and ends in a win after the troll gets banned: not really a big issue.

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Interesting responses to my post. My point was

To take issue with this is to be on the side of implementation with eyes shut. Not a smart approach to anything.

(a) Trolls couldn’t care less about being banned. (b) Exactly! That’s what I call “eyes wide open.” Having eyes wide open from the start saves a lot of whining later about abuse of the button.

But this would be the moderators whining, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

We’re soulless slaves to the system by free will. Spending a couple of seconds to determine the outcome of a game is what we’re doing right now anyways, it’d just be in a game that’s paused instead, and the honest player gets rewarded with the proper outcome to the game. Win-win.

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By the way, it already looks like the game is paused when you are in scoring:

image

Of course it still looks like that after calling a moderator. I lost a game once because I assumed that this was because I had reported the game and that it would stay “paused” while waiting for the moderator to help out.

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Yes, the main clock is paused and the stone removal clock is used instead. But, the game can be resumed by either of the players, after which the original timer also resumes, so it’s not really paused in a way that is robust against timing out. Also, in the case of live games leaving the game will trigger the autoscore to end the game for you.

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I should also say that this was a live game with an opponent who had an honest disagreement about seki, probably not an intentional score cheater. So I wasn’t worried about him resuming the game.

This would be great if true - I’d love a way to force autoscoring. But isn’t it the case that it just sticks with whatever random scoring was last shown on the board?

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See, i understand now :

So still have to wait the cheater to leave…

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Well, it assumes the player who is left has accepted the score (or does so after the other player leaves) or that both players leave the game.

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I think perfect way would be: if players can’t agree in 2 minutes, “force AI autoscore” button appears. Cheater wouldn’t wish to press it, but normal player would.


if both players don’t like “force”, it wouldn’t happen. So freedom and way to not wait too long at the same time.

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Off-topic:

  • “Let’s use proper encryption so we can warrant privacy of correspondence.”
    “But then (insert bogeyman du jour) will ruin everything!”
  • “A sound argument,… ah well, who needs inalienable rights anyway?”

On-topic:

Far from perfect. You’d get people play until they’re in a recognizably advantageous position and try to force autoscore. How do you get rid of both autoscore scammers and “territory filling” griefers? Not by a single measure that I can think of (except the current ‘call mod’ one). ^^

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You can’t start scoring mode when you wish because opponent would need to press “pass”. and AI estimate and AI score is not same thing. If your territory has hole, AI score will not give you territory.
Currently if you press call mod, when mod will come, your game may already have wrong score and mod will just annul it. But with my solution game likely will have correct score when mod comes.

Correct, which is why I wrote the next sentence.

As you have correctly pointed out, we currently do not have the option to force scoring in any fashion. To reiterate, I said that if we had forced scoring, there would be a new exploit. My point was made in form of a question, because I simply don’t know: How do you add forced AI scoring and simultaneously prevent griefers from simply switching from one exploit to another?

The bigger picture, of course, is this: do we get closer to the goal of a higher % of proper game finishes and fewer reports OR is this just one more hammer in the game of whack-a-mole?

area fillers is separate problem from score not accepters
score not accepting should be fixed anyway. % of score not accepters who will become area fillers may be smaller than you think.