What to do against score cheating

I feel like there should be an easy way to report people that are trying to cheat by using the counting system wrong. I’ve just watched a match played by my gf and this seems to happen rather often on lower levels. It’s particularly bad in my opinion since it will deter newer people from playing if shi* like this keeps on happening. Ofcourse sometimes there are confusions about seki and stuff, I’m talking about blatant cheating.

Or maybe something like: If both players don’t agree twice on a result the automatic result will be used or something. Some way to make the current system less inviting for abuse. :slight_smile:

In the right hand side slide out menu, there is a “call moderator” button, which is a relatively quick way to report anything and it notifies all currently online moderators to have a look.

Generally speaking this is something I would like to see as well, but it is a feature that just needs to be well thought out before we deploy anything like that…

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Isn’t it already deployed in some way? Happened to me few days ago, someone was trying to cheat me and i just kept switching the stones status to the correct one until finally the automatic scoring came in. (Well was more as 2 times but not many times either)

Not that I know of

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Or maybe it’s because i keep trying the automatic scoring ? I don’t remember exactly how i proceed but i am sure i got the right scoring.
Btw i call for a mod too, but that’s no guarantee to validate a win because they can’t be just available for each request in time.

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I’ve phrased this wrong :smiley: I’m aware that one can report players.
Reporting people doesn’t feel really great either and takes time for the player and the mods. I guess what I’d really be happy about is some way to make it less tempting to cheat in this manner.
I think a system that will use autoscoring quickly, combined with mods beeing able to give the win to the player deserving it, would lead to less frustration overall and less incentive to try to cheat in the first place - since it’s unlikely to work out. :slight_smile:

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Cheating reports take very little time, actually :slight_smile: It’s pretty easy to spot the cheater, since we have logs of what happened in the scoring stage.

It may take some time before a moderator is available to help, but our largest problem is that cheaters remain unnoticed for long (esp. at lower levels) because they aren’t reported by people. We can catch them earlier if they’d be reported more frequently.

So feel free to report away! :smiley:

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Here to confirm we suffer much more from too few cheating reports, not too many.
The same goes for vile chat abuse… sometimes we get our first report of a user and check their game history to find it happened dozens (or hundreds) of times with nobody saying anything.

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Short of perfecting the autoscore and eliminating the stone removal phase, which appears to be unrealistic at the moment, I believe only two things can be done to ameliorate the current situation:

One: the mods need to make score cheating the highest priority, which means taking a report the instant they see it, even if they are working on something else at the moment. I used to do that when I was moderating and managed thereby to save many games that would otherwise have to have been annulled. Perhaps some mods are doing this already. However, my experience with the score cheating reports I have filed in the last 7 months suggests otherwise. In that time, I have filed 44 reports of score cheating in progress that would change the result (approximately, a few of my notes are unclear; also note that I am not including score cheating that is done by people who are not satisfied with merely winning), and none of my reports was acted upon fast enough to save a single game. Many of them sat for close to, or even more than, a day.

Two: Ideally, some mods could spend some time monitoring, in the overview, games at the DDK level (where most bad behavior occurs). They could then stop score cheating, stalling, and even escaping in progress. It doesn’t have to be onerous, perhaps as little as an hour a day; a casual schedule might even be constructed to spread out coverage among several mods. Doing this reduces the number of reports, so it is not as if there is a one-to-one trade-off between doing reports and monitoring games. I managed to save about 200 games by doing this; of course, admittedly, I like watching games, even DDK games.

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I might be missing some obvious flaws with this, but wouldn’t mods beeing able to credit the win to the one deserving it: a. eliminate the time component on mods having to react fast
b reduce anger amongst people that this is happening to
c allow autoscoring to have a higher value, 'cause if it happens to be wrong a mod can look at it and correct it
d people that cheat don’t get “rewarded” for it by getting a match annulled instead of a loss in the worst case if a mod looks at it and a win in the best case

Damn this is getting long again…
A simple button to report people for cheating or chat abuse would go a long way in my opinion. The hurdle of writing a message to someone is rather high. For more than a few people there is a question of how much abuse do I have to take before I’m not the one beeing difficult for writing a message to a mod about it - or well he tried to cheat me but it didn’t work, so I’d rather not write a message about it. A one click button (possibly in the chat box) would lower that hurdle and if someone has a few of those reports on him, a mod looks into it

I totally agree, but I believe the system isn’t set up to allow changing results once they’ve been agreed upon. I agree it would be far less stressful if one could just report, let the score cheater end the game, and check back in a few days to see it marked as a win.

I think it’s already pretty painless to do.

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Game results cannot be reversed for technical reason, only annulled.

The obvious solution to this and the lack of urgency with which mods respond to reports is to make it possible to call a moderator and pause the game (in a way that the other player cannot resume and both can leave and neither loses from disconnection / escaping). Then the mod comes along when they can and awards win to correct player.

To prevent abuse of this feature maybe its only possible during scoring phase. But there are other situations it could be helpful, e.g. stalling players prolonging the game with stupid moves dying in gote in your territory or filling in theirs. Or a policy that if you use call mod and pause for no good reason then you lose even if your were winning on board.

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Wouldn’t this possibly in some cases lead to a new form of cheating/trolling: the pause troller?

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The main reason we don’t auto-pause on mod call is because it would stall the continuation of live tournaments.

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Well they would be self-reporting so… :joy:

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It seems worth considering though

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Hence my second paragraph.

I am not suggesting all calls to mods pause the game, but that there is a checkbox on the call mod dialog, default unchecked, to pause the game that you can choose to tick if e.g. in scoring phase with a score troller.

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This provision would not prevent trolls from holding up tournaments, and we mods cannot guarantee 24/7 coverage.