What to do when opponent attaches as an invasion?


#1

I know that moves like these are typically bad, but I don’t know how to deal with them/profit from them.
Anyone want to provide some insight?
Here is the game,
https://online-go.com/game/9389246.
Thanks,
MrC


#2

Attaching to something strong is often considered a good way to borrow strength, which is usually necessary when invading.
I’m a 12k, and I don’t know that you dealt with the invasions incorrectly.


#3

Thanks, I knew that attaching to weak stones is bad, and attaching to extremely strong stones is also bad, but for some reason I thought that this meant it applied to everything in between. I will definitely start to use this more in my games then.
However, I still feel like I got a bad result, because he did this several times, and took away a lot of my potential territory, maybe there is a way to get a better result?


#4

When a player invades opponent’s moyo, they might start with attaching move. Sometimes if you invade without attaching defending side may attack from distance and you end up not reducing much. Attach forces opponent to play either hane or extension. Extension puts less pressure on invading stone, so invader may even live directly. Defending side on the other hand will get influence from extension. Hane is more severe, but invader may crosscut and invoke fight, invader in this case will try to live or run (most likely sacrificing some stones) and defending side will try to get best result possible from attack. There’s no universal way to deal with it, every case is unique, but after attach game becomes very fun, that’s for sure.


#5

So the saying should be “don’t attach to a weak stone, unless you are invading” ?


#6

I’m not sure who implied that… I said “attaching to something strong is… a good way to borrow strength… when invading.”

Alexander did not seem to imply that either.


#7

Not sure about you guys, but the way I learned it was. “Attaching to a weak stone is bad, attaching to a strong stone is fine/good.”


#8

This quote referred to the move in the game where the invader attaches to the weak stone, which is what the OP was asking about.

As Thrawn said the way I learned it was: “Attaching to a weak stone is bad, attaching to a strong stone is fine/good.”

But based on Alexander’s observation, applying as it does to an invasion that starts with attachment to a weak stone, that’s what led me to think: the saying should be “Attaching to a weak stone is bad, except when starting an invasion”.


#9

I guess if you do think about it, when you start an invasion with an attach to a weak stone, your attaching stone is slightly weaker than the other stone, which is strengthened by influence. So there is strength to be borrowed…
But in the end… Whatever works.


#10

@GreenAsJade if there is weak stone, there are nealry always better ways to use it than attaching to it. Stone with no other stones close (friendly or opposing) is far from weak though.

I have done something similar in recent game (moves 52-60), I kinda like attaching under 10-4 stone in general. I would love feedback from strong player if its best/ok/bad plan.


#11

Thanks for all the replies, here is my DDK knowledge. Attaching to a lonely but strong stone is fine, because the stone is already strong, and wont get any more strength from being attached to. While the person attaching can get a few free moves, because the stone still needs to be defended. Attaching to a weak stone is bad, because the weak stone can get stronger through a hane or extension in sente. However, there are obviously exceptions to these rules, as in any proverb in go.


#12

I had a look at your game and made a quick review: https://online-go.com/review/259210

In your situation white’s move was very unreasonable. You could have made huge profits with it. The key point is to take away white’s base and make it run out, then chase it while making a moyo. Trying to enclose it from the top is usually the wrong strategy because nothing much is gained while the invasion can easily live.

When looking at ways to take away the base, first look at where can your opponent hane. Hane is very often the shape that lets a group live. If there is such a place(especially on the second line from the edge), play there.
This rule will help most invasions of this kind, where the invader has no friendly stones around.


#13

Thanks everyone for the feedback, it was very helpful. :slight_smile: