What's so bad about mirror go?

What’s your opinion of mirror, on the scale of 10 = “I love mirror Go!” to 1 = “Mirror Go is a crime against humanity”

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Not sleeping, and not necessarily lazy (as it can be a valid strategic choice); however it’s clear that mirror Go allows a player to play fast with little thinking.

In my view the psychology of my opponent is not the main issue though, it’s just that it makes the game fundamentally unfun.

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And yet so often we understand little about those “very known fields”.

Are you saying that mirror go is annoying because it’s boring? Just trying to be sure what you’re saying.

Anyway, I have avoided mirroring because I’m aware of the potential to annoy. But I’d like to explore it on occasion

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I don’t think this is the case. A good mirror should be evaluating every move to see if they need to break. Even more difficult because you are employing the play style of your opponent, not your own.

Of course one can play a lazy mirror. But one can also play a thoughtless non-mirror opening (I’m guilty of the latter :crazy_face:).

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Would you join an “Exploring Mirror Go” group?

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The only good thing about a great, thoughtful mirror go opponent is that I assume they’d quickly break mirroring because my moves suck.

Joking aside, you could still continue mirror go well past the point of the thoughtless opening if your opponent doesn’t force you to break it. And in any case, I did say that the psychology of the opponent was not really my concern. :wink:

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Thats prejudice, disrespectful and wrong.

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That’s a very reduced view on the pro world. Pro teach, comment, share their enthusiasm on the game and even at times drink beer in the middle of the night.
Actually pro don’t complain with mirror go and when ama ask them it seems they enjoy it like any other openings.

I will never be so ready for a so rude attitude.

That’s always as it is. Whatever the opening, unless some agreement of course.

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Post 20. I do not think that I can explain it better than that. :slight_smile:

But I’d like to explore it on occasion

You can try it, who said otherwise?
Personally, in unranked games where people might be playing for fun, when I try weird stuff like the Sideseki, I tend to notify the opponent that I am going to be “trying out some stuff, if they do not mind” and if they are not keen on that, we can cancel the game. I think that’s good manners, as far as I am concerned.

If the game is ranked, you do not have to inform the opponent at all. You can try a weird strategy in order to win, no problem.
That is your choice and right to do so, since it is in the rules.
All I am saying is that I’d probably give you those points in 20-30 moves if you play mirror Go on a ranked game against me.
That is my choice and right to do so, since it is in the rules.

This is what was asked:

What do you think then when pros play mirror in titles tournaments?

If any of you can give me one single other motivation for a professional title tournament game, I am all ears :slight_smile:

You didn’t ask for that though, did you?

Good! I’ve never thought of it as a surprise resignation. Sounds fun :slight_smile:

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Rather than resign, why not simply memorize a line to quickly break a mirror?

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I think this is very symptomatic of online playing. I never see people suddenly running away because they don’t like your opening in a real life face to face game

It’s incredibly selfish in my opinion.

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As I said, noone has tried mirror Go against me. I play correspondence games 99% of the time and I’d say that mirror Go is very unlikely there, due to the time settings making it awkward even for the person that tries it :stuck_out_tongue:

But in a live game, I’ll honestly prefer to lose. If they want the points so much so as to try that, let them just take them. I value my time, more than the points.

Outsourcing your moves to the opponent is saying that “I am not playing in the first moves”.
The opponent standing up and resigning is saying “well, I am not playing the rest of them either”.

Ergo, they are either both rude or not.
They are certainly both within the rules.

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You mentioned multiple times that

Resigning when you are not specifically in a losing position on the board is not encouraged by the OGS moderation policy, I remind you although I assume you re aware of it already.

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The thing is making the game even in the opening is not good enough to win because you can never mirror until the endgame or even late middle game, You have to judge when to stop mirroring so that you can gain an “advantage” but that’s difficult if you are just blindly mirroring. You need to avoid certain traps for people playing mirror such as those using ladder, and you need to think about what to do when the opponent goes for the centre early.

If by the time you stop mirroring the game is not in a situation that you like, you might as well have played according to your style from the start to increase the chances of you winning.

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needs another poll smile🤣! I think there are four options though, not just two.

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How can you be so sure that they only want points? Maybe they just want to show you a weak point in your practice of go.

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Will you pick a lane and stick to it?

Earlier you asked about “tournament title games”. When I responded to that, you told us how professionals act OUTSIDE of those games.

Now you lamented how this attitude is mostly online and said:

I never see people suddenly running away because they don’t like your opening in a real life face to face game

and when I responded about that case, you reply about the OGS rules!
Online Go Server rules do not apply in “a real life face to face game” :sweat_smile:

“I remind you although I assume you re aware of it already.”

Maybe they just want to show you a weak point in your practice of go.

Online there is a “chat” feature.
In person, they can say so.

If Black plays tengen and then mirrors blindly, White doesn’t need any particular anti-mirror strategy. At some point, when stones approach tengen, the tengen stone becomes inefficient (overconcentration) and White ends up winning by komi. So in order to win, Black needs to break the mirror at some point.

If White mirrors blindly and you don’t like that, just play tengen early. This may lose 1-2 points according to AI but this is negligible at amateur level (and even pros sometimes start at tengen).

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I like this argument. Reveals the hypocrisy of defending Mirror Go, and yet condemning refusing to play it

Argumentum ad Baculum. All this shows is that the OGS policy is hypocritical in this instance. That’s a valuable observation, but it doesn’t help your case

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