i can see why people cheat at this game and use a.i software etc to get an advantage. The game is just so biased to better players and rightly so, that beginners get too depressed to continue on, and just quit, some though, then see justification and continue on using a.i. software to at least get an even chance of winning once in a while, and the gratification that comes with it, of course, this feeling is fleeting and soon will wear off, as the effort to cheat becomes more and more cumbersome to maintain than the reward of winning, and they quit just the same. or get caught, they are then in the same place as the ones that quit because the game system is set up not to educate the beginner, using 20 /30 hard-to-pronounce words describing all the moves that make no sense at first to understand with attaching obtuse words to them hoping you will get it , instead of haveing a teaching method set up to guide you through the maze of concepts that need to be learned before one can even start a game. and a more even way of finding a partner to play, having a 25k level playing another 25k level player is not enough â how many lessons has the person taken, how long have they played, should be just two of the many factors before pairing someone up. and with a.i. Software being what it is it should be easy to do, shouldnât it ? Making the playing field more even should be the goal to encourage the new players to stay not go or cheat â more players should be the goal, not a smaller field with tighter and tighter levels of commitment lessening the enjoyment of new players, just my thought on the matter being a new player myself i will try to stay taking a lesson each day and then watching videos and then playing 3 and up day games so i can think about the moves - ten days 229 games 4 gimme wins is the resultto read so far maybe i can get to 250 games and 5 win games, some time this week, now where is that go book book a friend gave me to read, for players under over 15k instead of looking online for a go engine offline to use during the game that plays at 4k or even dan level
rant over back to one more game for the afternoon
Two things:
a) Any game played by amateurs is played for fun. If some people find âfunâ only in winning and they cheat to get their fix, then I do not think that anyone is sorry to see those people eventually give up the game and go find their fun elsewhere.
b) Cheating is never an issue with the games themselves, but with the playersâ mentality. No game or server can - or should - fix your mental approach in life.
Those shouldnât matter at all. I have taken zero lessons, our accounts are almost similar in terms of years and you have more than double the amount of ranked games that I have. None of that means anything.
Have you seen interactive way to go? My favorite tutorial.
Is cheating with AI a common problem on OGS? Are you sure? You can report when you think it was the case. Because the moderation team managing reports is at times very busy you may ask some strong player first to check if he thinks there is cheating.
Thatâs a beginner dream. But thatâs not how it works. Concepts need you some practice before being introduced and it works better if you donât get all of them at the same time.
Itâs really an impossible dream.
This could be but how would you implement this? Should we ask each beginner coming to play? Isnât it a bit too framed, or intrusive? Is it realistic, can we reach a better pairing? There are many different ways a newcomer will use to discover go, how would we standardize it?
Note that using a kind of AI software to determine pairing relatively to some levels in acquisition of concepts seems to me another full dream completely out of what AI is able to do.
For sure. I ensure you that you are not alone in thinking this.
All in all I found that your suggestions are more fitted for a go school in real life with teachers and their expertise (like for the ability to pair players), if you give up some of the dreams anyway and if the school isnât already good working. As for a go server like OGS we may keep searching other ways to give a better experience for a beginner with eventually some attainable mechanism to implement if any affordable.
i beg to disagree how many years you have been playing or how many lessons have you taken does apply to ranking fairly â two 24k are not equal no matter what but by having better criteria, maybea closer fit would be possible in players get a equal hit at the bat in a game
This could work in very specific case, like students in a go school. I dunno how you could compare all the various profiles on internet. One play a thousand games in a month then stop playing for 6 months, one play 3 games a week, another one only on weekends, one play 3 games a day, one play when he feels without any regularityâŚ
Same for lessons ( at first does each player take lessons?).
There is definitely a big gap between naturally gifted students and those who arenât. Some take the same classes for months and years, and still couldnât work their way through and didnât take in the lessons, while others just need a few examples and jump up several levels of classes in no time. Itâs about what you learn, not how many years of lessons taken, and some lessons would be forgotten over time. I see plenty of Go students who learned as kids and get pretty strong, but give up Go for schools and universities, and come back as adults, and they often forget the majority of the lessons they learned
May I disagree with what you stated about ABC for new players here?
and agree with you 100% on âhard-to-pronounceâ words (after 4 months, I am myself confused among tenuki or suzuki (a motorcycle brand)
Letâs discuss learning methods for beginners, focusing on how to match them with their individual learning styles (visual, auditory, kinesthetic, or a combination) and motivations.
Do you know yours well @OldNewGuy?
I feel like this is crossing the line with AI use. You didnât just have some âhelpâ from AI, the post is clearly primarily written by AI. I very much dislike these kinds of posts, both here and on other sites, because if somone wanted a response from AI they could just ask it themselves. If someone is posting here Iâd think theyâre looking for a response from a human.
Itâs also very low effort and feels disrespectful. If someone has something to say I have no issue with them posting. If they donât, I have no issue with them not posting. But when someone just copies and pastes an AI response it gives the impression that they want to respond but have nothing to say.
If they did matter as much as you think, then you would have been 3k by now, but you are not, because they do not.
Your account, in particular, is a very rare case. Dropping from 7k to 25k and below is practically impossible, unless you are playing on someone elseâs account (e.g. it was the account of a relative) or something horrible happened to you (e.g. some medical condition).
Even old age couldnât account for that kind of drop in ranking/performance, so I donât think that any automated system could be reasonably be expected to keep up with your particular situation.
This was just a re-writing of the post, by removing the nuance and context of the thinking behind the posts.
Due to that, it wasnât easier to understand at all. I had to triple-check my own point to understand if what I wrote, is what the AI presented. 
Iâll second that and add that I purposefully do not ask anything of any AI, so it is a bit odd for me to have to shift through AI generated discussion in a platform whose explicit function is human generated discussion (hence the word âforumâ).
Please donât do that. Asking AI for a resume and copy it here is detrimental. I lost time to discover nothing new and I felt that the resume on my contribution seems incorrect but I have no interest in checking the differences. I prefer to go and read the original of each publisher.
After rereading AI is inferring things that I didnât say. I would be furious if It wasnât an AI behind. For example I ask if cheating is a problem. Itâs a question to which I havenât answered myself with a âitâs rareâ like AI wrote. I wrote âpractice before introduction of conceptsâ which is different from the AI version which is not making clear the separation.
I donât want to rewrite articles to make them understandable by an AI. Iâm exchanging with humans here.
Wait, wouldnât it be obvious if a beginner cheats? The AI applications, like lizzie, are pretty strong.
Most of the time I guess. I imagine that sometimes it could be not easy to determine if the player suddenly see a capture by himself or with the help of an AI. As an example.
Itâs true that cheating with AI seems to be more a problem for high ranked players but it still can interfere for lower ranked too.
They can sandbag their cheating by not playing the best moves, but slightly worse moves mixed with their own moves. If they choose basic, casual looking moves, no expertly played out ko threats, then I think itâll be hard to detect, let alone prove.
Speaking of beginners I donât think itâs easy to cheat in this way, mixing good and bad⌠That requires already some knowledge. But a cheat with 1 opportunity revealed seems more plausible Especially capture opportunity, something easy to understand
Now IMHO, beginners donât cheat. If one cheats it should be most of the time very easy to detect the use of an AI. Sorry for the OP, the problem is somewhere else.
If you think so highly about AI software, maybe you can ask it to teach you something about go.
Sounds like you focus on quantity instead of quality. Try games with longer thinking time, itâs easier to learn from them.
There are many free beginner friendly tutorials available on the web.
Every hobby comes with some technical terminology that one needs to learn (though I admit that go has a lot).
Many people have successfully learned go. Blaming outside factors is the wrong mindset for making progress.
yes you are correct, blaming outside factors is wrong - it really me iam afraid i just played a 9 yr child on another site and then found out he has only been play about two weeks about the same as me i lost in less than twenty moves - so maybe this game is just to hard for my simple old mind to understand i will stay for a little longer maybe a week to see if i can improve not win any games but last longer at least in games i play -if not it back to online poker i guess and chess- i will set a goal to see how many moves i can stay before i lose control of the board or get more than 8 stones lose differentail â maybe i use that to keep going also going to play games where just make eyes and see how many i can make in a game before the downfall.
i have heard and sennposted on other siites about players using two ai engines to play the game and alternate between them throwing off others form detection â but then again i know very little other than what i read in go posts on various sites,-- havng recently been beaten by a very young child who said he he only been playing 2 weeks and having a 24k posting,at the time , just checked and now he is down to 17k