Why is this the wrong move (tsumego)?

Problem is this

I play T3, AI plays T2, I play T1 and it says wrong move

W can’t play S3 or T4, so whatever else I play T2 and get 2 eyes, no? Am I embarrassingly off here?

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I think this is just the case of where if this was a real game a ko fight wouldn’t be optimal.

If you go back to the start and try another move, and see if the result is any different. If Black can live without the possibility of a ko it should be slightly better than having to fight and win a ko.


I was fast enough to see the post before the edit…

I understand the ko thing (clarification: now that you explained, not on my own), but I’m supposed to live, I think “wrong” is overly dramatic :stuck_out_tongue:.

Also, I have a thing for kos even when I don’t mean to :woman_shrugging:

To have a thing for kos is rare and precious, so cultivate it!


Yeah whoops! It only occurred to me after hitting reply that it should’ve at least had a spoiler tag or something.

It is something though that one just has to accept with Tsumego puzzles, although I feel like apps and books could probably do with explaining this aspect.

I do agree that wrong is quite harsh, especially when there’s different levels of “wrong”, like dieing in gote as opposed to living in ko or seki if the answer is to live unconditionally.

I guess they could make puzzles instead where they give you a full board position, or something with one ko threat for an opponent, but then it can be hard to know what the puzzle really wants, and one might have to count to see if the ko threat is big enough etc :slight_smile:


Did you find the right answer (which avoids the ko)?

Shinuito posted the answer by mistake, but in any case the right answer wasn’t the first on my radar, so I still need work.


Tsumego pro (free for android). 3 very easy and 3 intermediate every day. Forget the hard ones.

This is only the case in tsumego problems, though. In a real game a ko is better than a seki whenever you have more ko threats than your opponent (although I guess it also depends on if those ko threats will bring you in a better position, or if you need them for a different ko).

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That’s the one in the screenshot.


In a real game ko the evaluation also depends how many points each side has at stake in the ko. The side with more to lose typically needs bigger ko threats to fight the ko. Usually there are fewer large ko threats than small ones.
A very asymmetric ko is called a “flower viewing ko”.


Even if you win a ko it’s still two moves in a row for the opponent. Iffy, iffy. I think seki is better than ko is a good rule of thumb.


I thought it’s better to continue the same thread instead of a new topic, but I have the opposite problem

It’s B turn, W just killed T1 so whatever I play W gets two eyes, how is this solved for B???
What obvious thing am I missing??

It’s a ko, black plays a ko threat.

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Maybe (?) You miss the atari on the 3 stones? I mean when b takes the ko.

In real game you threaten something big. Like you threaten to kill a giant white dragon. And white has to respond because it’s too big to lose. And black get to retake the ko.

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I see the threat for W R2 group and also for my R2 stones.

I thought tsumego was simple “live here/ kill here, k thanx”, this thing where it’s local problem but I have to solve it like a board is there is hard. :angry:


In some complicated josekis, you have that kind of local life with ko. Then locally players have to be careful to keep some threats and not waste them… Go is really difficult sometimes.

The way to see a life and death problem is “status of a group”. It means what happens if black play first if white play first? Do we even need to add a move? Trying to consider all what can happen.

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Understatement :stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue: