1s per move ranked games

[Gia]

@teapoweredrobot

the tropical connection

It probably means something else, but

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[teapoweredrobot]

Ducking autocorrect…

[GreenAsJade]

@Conrad_Melville

The argument is that the impossibility of finding a perfect solution should stop us from having a good solution, because that would be arbitrary. This is an abdication of the use of judgment.

Well said ! I had this feeling, but couldn’t put my finger on it.

[gennan]

The fix could be as simple as removing 1s from the list of options in the UI, no back-end chance needed?

[teapoweredrobot]

But it’s not quite as straightforward as that right? 1s is fine if main time is big enough. In that we are back to calculations of per move time for a typical game.

Edit: like all the discussion in Unusual Time setting: Canadian Byo-Yomi Blitz

[gennan]

I would consider a 1s increment almost the same as absolute time, not quite enough to finish a game even if it is in the late endgame (see tricks like resumptions/unexpected pass/playing far away from last move/stalling etcetera).

[_Sofiam]

5s+1s games can reach the counting phase, I linked some examples in the first message

[teapoweredrobot]

Although Conrad’s example above suggests that even 4s is too short to deal with this but I think in most cases 4s should be ok.

It seems to me that removing 1s when main time is below some figure would be a reasonable start and improvement. Whether to go further can be discussed further!

[teapoweredrobot]

@_Sofiam

can reach

Or reach it often enough to be reliable for determining rank?

The question seems to be less about what is the minimum that can achieved with fast clicking and a good connection but rather what is the minimum where some element of Go skill is involved. Are they the same?

[gennan]

An average time per move of 2s might be doable (assuming ~120 moves per player to go to scoring). So something like 2 minutes basic time and 1s increment (Fisher).

@_Sofiam

5s+1s games can reach the counting phase, I linked some examples in the first message

It may be possible, but if 90+% of those games end in one of the players timing out, I still consider it not really doable.

[teapoweredrobot]

I suppose we could just remove 1s as an option and see how much of a howl of protest hits the forums and chat…

[_Sofiam]

@gennan

It may be possible, but if 90+% of those games end in one of the players timing out, I still consider it not really doable.

I think it depends on the players. I can play at that speed, that player too (I took us as examples because I’m not sure about anyone else). I think that if we play together we can finish 75+% of the games.

@teapoweredrobot

I suppose we could just remove 1s as an option and see how much of a howl of protest hits the forums and chat…

I’m against it in unranked games. As I said, I consider playing at this speed very fun.
I think they should be unranked, but only because players that accept those time settings usually can’t manage it…

[jlt]

@_Sofiam

I can play at that speed, that player too

Yes but most opponents of that player can’t, and that’s why his rating is distorted. So games with that time setting shouldn’t be ranked.

[BHydden]

There seems to be some confusion about whether we’re discussing the total removal of 1s games or just their unranking. So in true OGS forums spirit I made a poll.

• Keep 1s for ranked and unranked
• Remove 1s for ranked but keep it for unranked
• Remove 1s for both ranked and unranked

[benjito]

@teapoweredrobot

But it’s not quite as straightforward as that right? 1s is fine if main time is big enough. In that we are back to calculations of per move time for a typical game.

I suggest we use something like the following function to determine whether a game can be ranked: online-go.com/src/components/TimeControl/util.ts at d15bd4b069974331e506a51391cbb4965b35952a · online-go/online-go.com · GitHub

That’s the same function that determines whether there should be a on the Play page.

[jlt]

@Github

const QUESTIONABLE_SECONDS_PER_MOVE = 4; // less than this gets flagged as may be cheaty.

So at least 4 seconds per move would be reasonable?

[BHydden]

I’d personally be in favour of opening up unranked games to essentially just have custom fields that take any non-negative int. And locking down ranked to just a few preset values (maybe 2 or 3 blitz options, 5-10 live options, and 5-10 corr options) but there is always huge debate over what those options should be haha

[stone.defender]

There is no sense in limiting number of possible ranked values. Only min and max should be specified.

[martin3141]

In that poll am I only voting what we should discuss or already what should happen?

In any case I would like to point out that …

@_Sofiam

it’s mostly about how fast you can click. Skill matters very little.

… the “skill” lies in playing reasonably good moves as fast as possible. The strategic depth can’t be compared to games with slow time settings, but that doesn’t mean there is no skill involved.

The argument that slow internet connection can easily determine games is very true. It’s the same for many other fast paced online game though, and that doesn’t keep them from having a ranking system.

[BHydden]

@martin3141

In that poll am I only voting what we should discuss or already what should happen?

Well we already can discuss anything so I suppose the poll is which action you think we should take…?