I think we have to be “coerced”, because SNS makes it look so easy and we feel guilty for failing.
For some reason (read: the usual reasons) it’s seen as a sign of success. A six-pack is valued more than aerobic endurance, because the first one is offered for online validation.
tl;dr we need persuasion because we make health be about something else.
@yebellz
That was one of the weirdest marketing examples I have ever seen. Even in Manchester they wouldn’t dream of changing the logo the Manchester City or Manchester United for such a thing (maaaaaybe you could get away with the Manchester United devil having a chicken in the trident? 
). This is so odd O_o
No offense was taken, no worries 
Since the WW2 was mentioned it is good to remember a bit of history and point out that despite the lack of resources, tanks, modern aircraft and even basic supplies, the Greek army was the first to ever conclusively defeat any of the Axis powers and push them back into their own territory (for a lot of reasons, there are documentaries for those).
Sometimes numbers and statistics are just that. The epimyth of that part of history is that any plan, however good on paper, needs a lot of effort to actually work when placed into practice and faced with reality.
I didn’t do much, so, again, no offense.
I did learn a lot though 
Anyway, to the new topic at hand:
Well, excuse me if I am wrong, but isn’t that the “american dream”?
The great job making 6 figures income, a good car, a nice privately owned house, the ability to have a successful career and be a paragon of the local community, be seen and admired as someone that “made it”?
There is nothing wrong with that.
Of course you can get there by being a doctor OR by owning a small company that cleans office blocks. What the “doctor career” provides, apart from the money, is prestige and it is seen as a harder job to attain, but easier job to maintain in the long-term.
Isn’t this true?
Can we really fault people for wanting the best for their kids?
I have worked as a private tutor that prepares children for the SAT equivalent here and, sadly, most of the times parents seem to pressure their children in studying for careers and studies which they do not like and they are, sometimes, beyond their abilities ( despite modern “theories”, not every child can have the grades and the mental tenacity to be a doctor or a prosecutor). Now that disconnection from reality, if you ask me, is the only real issue here, however, the underlying motive of “a parent wanting the best for their child” is not something that will ever go out of any society. It is not reasonable to expect that to happen.
ah, but if you scratch the surface on that, you will see that it is “good old plain greed” mostly at fault here and not purely an issue of supply and demand.
Have a look at this:
It is a known fact that administrators nowadays are costing WAAAAAY more than teaching faculty in universities and do not get me started on the salaries of the “football team” coaches
I mean, ancient Greece is the source of the “healthy mind in healthy body” philosophy, but this approach from the US colleges in turning into a sports club is really stretching it.
Well, this is patently illogical, but this is the basis of your system.
You do not need to be a trained economist to realise that getting into debt in order to be trained to have a job is a horrible idea, since it practically chains you into working hard for the system for at least the next decade.
For example, there are some cases here where the caveat is that “you cannot quit this job for the next 10 years, else you compensate us for quitting” which are immediate red flags for any worker (this, for example, was the deal that was given to a Major in the army that was my director - he would be sent for a free post-gradute for two years while receiving 70% of his salary without working, but he would have to use the added knowledge for the benefit of the army for the next ten years. If he quit, he would have had to return a portion of his salary and the cost o the post-graduate) and everyone is thinking twice of getting tangled into this kind of thing.
However, over there, you seem to miss that a student loan is very similar to the aforementioned OBVIOUS red flag and actually turning you into a sort of an indentured worker where you have to work hard not only to survive, but also pay back your loan. Pardon me, but this is a bad idea to have as a national system. Maybe in some particular cases it can be good, but in general, it is not.
Now, my question to you, is WHY is that?
And why doesn’t the society over there want what other (less financially advanced) societies have (tuition free universities)
Observing reality is easy (it is already around us ), but finding the reasons is what is actually worth doing, so, since it is your country, I would like to hear your opinion on the reasons first.
They are now a good niche market to get into and make good money.
No harm in that either, that is usually the ebb and flow of such things.
And the earlier you get in, the less competition and the more money for you.
Really smart americans could actually get the same skills in other countries with a fraction of the cost
People tend to forget that English now is almost everywhere and English speaking colleges are also almost everywhere (at least in Europe).
Instead of forking 50000 dollars for ONE year in a USA college, you could spend all that and pay for FOUR years in an english/american college abroad.
Isn’t this the spirit for the “free market” and “open competition” that is so beloved over there?
Well, it is about time you opened your eyes to the existence of “the rest of the world” and take advantage of the opportunities there.
That is on the shoulders of the society itself, by the way.
Here, you do not believe me? Take the Deree college in Athens (now, literally called the “AMERICAN COLLEGE”) and these are the tuition fees for North American students like you:
In what universe does all that amount to 50000 dollars per year?
More like 50000 dollars in four years, with dorm and food included.
And of course, there other colleges like that, like BCA which I checked and provides all semesters to be taught in English, if you so desire.
Before you lot get into such debts, you need to explore your options … the penchant of the average american on ignoring the “rest of the world” is really something that you should do away with now, in this day and era of open borders and freedom of information.
After all, a LOT of your companies do just that with outsourcing all those factories and jobs
Yes, but unless it is a programming job, noone will really take a self-trained doctor or chemist or economist.
Ah, but you forget that those credentials were managed with a lot of work
Personally, for various reasons, I had to strive and get my university degree in the fastest way possible (4 years) and not go for the more “leisurly approach” that most other students take (which provides them more free time, more fun and sometimes better grades) making the average graduate in my department need 7+ years to get their degree.
In order to achieve that sometimes I “lived” in the labs and my rented apartment was just a place I returned to sleep. So, in the end my degree is not just “a credential” … it usually represents a lot of hard work and perseverance.
I will agree however that it does not automatically represent competence in a work environment. There are a lot of people that can do well in theory and know the work that needs to be done, but cannot personally cope with the rigors of having a job, a boss, timetables, deadlines and so forth. That is not a slight on the education they received, but it is an issue on how inflexible work environments are (and some of those people got a real break with the covid restrictions since they could work remotely and avoid those office related issues, which is a good thing )
Well, all those actual universities turning “online” due to covid but still charging the same amount of money, definitely didn’t help their cause. It was a bit sad to watch this go down.
Well, if we are being honest, I think that all those debt shenanigans that you go through periodically, the government shutdowns and the total lack of a national strategy and cohesion in your House and Senate, has either led to world-wide facepalms or mirth, depending on the case at hand, since it is a system that suffers from severe lack of efficiency.
Pokemon Go was surpisingly effective in that, if I remember correctly - I never played it, but I had heard about its effects and how people walked more (sometimes to some accidents too O_o ), so a similar game coule be effective?
For myself I have a few good habits that help along.
a) Never order take-out and expect a house delivery. I place the order and I walk or cycle there and return home to eat.
b) If the sun is shining (which it usually is, here) I go for 10 minutes of cycling towards my old school. Practice my basketball stroke for 30 minutes (alone, due to covid, alas) and return home. No exceptions. If the sun is out and it is not muddy, I am out. Work and everything else can wait for 40 minutes. So, as a more general advice, find an activity you like (e.g. I am not keen on running or “just walking”, but I’ll happily chase after a basketball for an hour) and engage it. Create a good habit and keep it there.
As @Gia mentioned, that might not lead into a 6-pack, but it will improve your mood and health, even if it will not do much about your appearance unless combined with a dietary course. Personally during the pandemic I have trained in more hours at basketball than ever and I have seen a great improvement in many aspects, even though I weigh and look exactly the same as ever ( damn sugar ) … looks can come later or not at all. Health is not always about looks though.
The interview is quite long, here is a summary:
Yes we have a similar problem. A few weeks ago I called a plumber, and he said his agenda is full for 6 months. On the other hand we have a high unemployment rate.
However the big difference with the US is that education here is almost free. Well, it’s financed by taxpayer’s money so we pay indirectly, but the cost per capita is much less than in the US, I think something around 10000€/year/student. Some schools, especially business schools, do charge money but they are quite affordable compared to US universities.
I don’t think it’s so much that kids or parents don’t want to do dirty jobs, it’s more that society has been conditioned that going to university is the only path to a successful career. Here in Australia they even closed all the technical colleges (high schools with a strong trade focus and many opportunities to learn job skills) during the 90’s, then to their shock we had a massive trade shortage 15-20 years later and had to offer people a huge financial incentive to reskill into trades later in life…
Which is a bit ironic, considering that there is no “formal training” needed for the job of being a politician, no actual work standards or work ethics involved and usually no oversight or accountability.
No wonder most of them do not understand what actual jobs are like
Well, the problem with the concept “American Dream” has changed considerably over the course of history and is even less agreed upon now then it was then. But, ultimately, the “traditional” view that I follow and the kind of people follows is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The core idea is that all people are created with equal dignity and respect (though slavery unfortunately violated this right for the first good chunk of our history). That being said, these principles and the idea of opportunity being available equally to all are what our country was founded on, not slavery as many modern institutions will wish to tell you. Of course, that doesn’t mean that this is reality - far from it for a lot of people - but this was and still is the core principle our country is supposed to follow.
Well the key here I think is the difference between someone wanting the best for their child verses wanting something better for them. The problem is asking the question what the best actually means? Highest paying, most satisfying, most unique?
This is also true of the public school system (up to high school), in the United States. My dad is an elementary school teacher, and the educational system, even public, has gotten way too “top-heavy.” Our school district recently opened up positions for four assistant elementary school principles, each of which paying deep into the six figures. Here is the thing though, these are specifically for small elementary schools that don not need anyone other than the actual principle. So they are basically getting paid to do nothing (kind of like many politicians). Way too many administrators, that is for sure.
This is a very highly debated topic in America, but I believe the more important question to ask is why this became such an issue to begin with. Because, at the end of the day, I think that putting all education into the hands of the government will just lead to everyone paying more money. At least in the former case, those especially bright pupils can say no to college altogether with no money to owe (as opposed to more taxes), and pursue a career path without that requirement. But to me, paying the government that much more for something they have complete control over makes less sense, because then they also have control over what can and cannot be taught, thus feeding more propaganda to future generations.
I mentioned early that the public school system that is a governmental service is also no different in the sense that it feels a need to be top-heavy. So, no I really don’t trust that the government will actually solve this issue with student debt via free college, I just think it will further tumble governmental debt and my taxes as a result. I really don’t know that much about this issue though, so here is another article that is NOT from RedState :
Like I said though, this is heavily debated and there are many Americans that do support the idea.
So here is where I think there was a misunderstanding, the average cost in American is about 30,000 dollars for a four year degree, not that much money every near (although some schools such as Harvard are that expensive every year). So, some are less, some are more but I was referring to four years, not one year. Thus, that English/American college you were describing in Europe would actually be more expensive than many in the US.
Well, again, that depends on who you are actually talking to nowadays. I don’t believe in a perfectly free market unregulated economy, but I also don’t believe in giving the government complete control of the entire educational system.
Is that for every semester or every year? Because if it is actually for every semester, I am pretty sure I could still actually pay a bit less than that in my local town’s college, which is fairly comparability inexpensive. And I definitely would be able to with a scholarship that my State (Wyoming), gives to almost every Wyoming student who grew up in Wyoming.
Well, try to tell someone living on the open border down in Texas how well that is working out right now with the immigration crisis. People still cannot seem to realize that there is a huge difference between legal, regulated immigration (oh, am I really in favor of regulation in this case?), and illegal immigration in which case crime and disorder punctures in. President Biden recently proposed giving 450,000 dollars to each of these illegals. I don’t even know how people can admire him for that. We are supposed to all be treating those of other countries and racial backgrounds more respectfully. But if we all are truly equal, shouldn’t I also get a $450,000 paycheck? And it goes with out saying that all this “stimulus” money has only inflated the economy drastically, so that is all another issue.
True, there are some careers that definitely require that education, but many also don’t. The issue is that I am more worried about having enough plumbers in the next 30 years, not doctors though. So, we have a pool that is incorrectly balanced away from the demand, because kids would rather be doctors than plumbers. I am not saying that either everyone should or should not attend college, rather that the balance of actual careers is very off in many ways.
This is true, but what I meant, and as you caught onto later in your post, was that much of this education does not automatically qualify everyone for the workforce. Again, we have too many art history majors and English majors (two examples of very limited areas of study for career paths), and not enough freaking toilet-men. 
Okay, so this isn’t just an American issue, that is what I really wanted to know. Yes, trying to get some of these guys is nearly impossible depending on who you are and where you are. Very interesting.
Well, that is the theory of it, but most people practically turned that to “my world, my TV, my food” ( I do not take credit for this. that’s the lyrics for Faith no More’s song called “RV” ), but seriously “life, liberty and happiness” are VERY abstract, so most people usually interpret it that a good job is “the life”, their own house and car was (financial) liberty and being envied is “happiness”.
I could be wrong, but I think we all suspect that most people are like that, unfortunately.
Or all of them, preferably, but generally you forgot the most important, “the most safe”.
I’ll give you an example. Let’s say that you are a middle-level administrator in the local municipality. Nothing fancy. You got a degree in business and economics and you got hired in a practically permanent government position that will be the for the rest of your life. A bit boring, but stable and easy to maintain.
Let’s say you learned a trade. For example you are a plumber and since there is a shortage of them at the moment, you make quite the pretty penny. For the sake of argument you make twice as the middle-level administrator. However that is a very demanding and taxing job on your health. Hard to maintain that rhythm for many many years.
This is hardly an abstract example. Most countries keep statistics on “work accidents” in construction and trade works, but I hardly think that there is any country that keeps statistics of work accidents for clerks, right?
As you can see what is a “good job” and “learn a trade” or “get a degree” are oversimplifications and, in a way, only increase your odds in getting through life while being employed. The better the odds for that, the safer people feel.
So, what do people tend to aim for?
A job that has as much potential as possible. If they will be able to actualise it, is a different subject.
oof … that’s indeed quite unfortunate … but think of how steady THEY think that job is
There is a slight misunderstanding here I think. By no means did our government control the content of the curriculum in the university I attended, even though it was indeed publically funded.
For example, the ministry of education might decree that our department needed to teach discreet mathematics, linear algebra, electromagnetic physics, signals and network, probabilities, infinite calculus and so forth.
And so, people with PhDs where hired to teach those classes. Noone from the ministry ever checked the minutiae of what and how they taught those classes. There is no propaganda in linear algebra … nothing is under the tables there (I’ll go to hell for that joke 
)
It won’t because you turn everything to profit over there. I mean is there any other place in the world where they have privatised even the prisons?
While in university I never heard the word profit in my life. Noone cared for the institution to make a profit because it was not “for profit” or even a “non-profit”. It was public and that meant that things were as simple as it gets.
Oof … what a lot of nonsense. That article was a bunch of well-written tripe.
In my country there is a saying that goes “whoever doesn’t want to knead dough, is constantly shifting the flour” and that is the epitomy of that.
All you need is a simple free stripped down version of your colleges that would go back to basics. Not all of them have to do that. You do not turn Harvard in a tuition-free university.
But now that education is just profit, you cannot turn even a small part of a multi-billion business back into a “for the public” service and if that was the only sentence the article contained, I would have applauded that for pointing out the main issue.
Meanwhile I find it insane that I was able to have been provided such a service for free in my tiny country while the biggest economy on the planet cannot figure it out and they can actually find excuses for that. It is baffling.
Quite so, I googled that now and the average debt is around there. Alas that is what happens when I assume that an article talking point of “it costs 50000 per year waaaaaah” is to be taken seriously without digging through it.
My mistake for lapping that up and and not double-checking it
True. Yet, again, there are other places cheaper than Greece (e.g. Bulgaria and Romania, where a lot of people from here go to study) and let us not forget the lower costs of living. A monthly cost of 1000 dollars in Athens is a good amount for a student to live a cozy life. I am not sure you can even survive as a student with 1000 dollars in any place with a university in the States.
I am not sure about that to be honest. It depends on what they mean by credits. If they mean that each academic year has two semesters and around 25-30 credits (isn’t that a bit much though?) then it would be more expensive. I will admit that it was hard to locate even that page with the tuition fees, so it is hard to cross-reference 
In such cases when what I write is in doubt, let us assume that I made a mistake, just to be safe
I understand that, the Greek border is the EU equivalent of the Texas border, so I know what it is like. However, I was not talking about anything illegal, so let us not veer into that please.
A very dear friend of mine moved to Switzerland, got a scholarship, a PhD and now lives elsewhere in the EU. Another good friend did something similar and went for a post-graduate in Finland. Another friend is working in Portugal and my best friend lives in Sweden now. All of them legally … they found better opportunities, they went there. Do you think that they knew Finnish, Swedish, Portuguese or German? No, no, no and no, is the answer. But they all were willing to learn.
For better or for worse, open borders within Europe means cultivating a sense of going places. Most people in the EU are bilingual and in the case of my friends they know three and four languages by now and it is not as if they were rich or part of any priviledged family that provided them such lavish education.
I think that you will agree that this open-horizons mentality is a definite plus for a society and that you will agree that most americans are reticent to even visit countries where English is not the first language, let alone move there permanently.
By self-declaring yourselves “the best country in the world”, you have practically closed yourselves to the opportunities. Because who doesn’t want “the best”? So, why even bother checking elsewhere?
Meanwhile, since we are talking education and in previous posts you cast some doubt about some benefits we have - or at least used to have. Did you know that when I was a student, the PUBLIC school curriculum actually included most of the things tought in physics 8.01 in MIT? Yes, most of that stuff in that huge playlist:
Granted we had no huge amphitheater, expensive props or labs and our teacher was definitely NOT Walter Lewin, but we were taught all that in our public, free, school, with a curriculum set by the state for all citizens across the country.
We were also taught integrals and derivatives, which iirc for most european schools they are considered an “only for universities” subject. Genetics too, some really advanced stuff. And chemistry and physics and a plethora of things.
Why am I saying this? For two reasons:
A) To re-inforce my point that there is no reason to automatically look down on other places. There is something useful to be learned from anywhere. If some people somewhere are doing something right, it is a good idea to have an open mind and have a look.
B) To re-inforce my point that there is no reason for universities to be as fantastically expensive in your country as they are now. Walter Lewin in those lectures is doing a fantastic job with some non-really-expensive props and lab materials. Our universities do not even have that. Yet, we export scientists and doctors all over Europe. Are we smarter? No. It is just a system that gives more people, more opportunities to shine (in comparison to yours, at least). I could barely afford an education here, so in the USA I’d never be anything more than just a high school graduate. Land of opportunities, eh?
Yes, you should, however I doubt that any immigrants will be getting that kind of money. I mean, come on, there was months-long fight last year during covid for the CITIZENS to even get 1000 dollars. Let us be serious
Will you be a plumber then?
No, it is not. If you dwelve a bit into historical data you will notice this trend on any society that is moving “upwards” in prosperity. The more defined a middle class gets, the more there is an upward movement towards higher education and more cerebral jobs. This trend is as old as our species (even the Roman empire and the ancient Greeks suffered from exactly that problem)
In my experience by communicating, most people are conditioned to be like that but can escape if you dig deeper together. (A bit of warm sun on your face)
That’s another characteristic of our times! We are supposed to be connected all day.
This is what is supposed to be the problem. People could do that without the app, but they seem to prefer a gamified incentive.
That would solve the sedentary life problem in a couple of days
That’s true, sports can be a path to beauty, a lifestyle prerequisite but seldom a tool for our health.
It’s a 2021 video, it counts.
I would laugh, but I have the sneaking suspicion that these ideas have traction.
If you ask me 3 minutes before a History exam, I’ll vote for recentism with both hands 
It’s strange how people will question the sunrise and sunset if it annoys their ideology (or if they are bored enough) but they will hesitate to question the “need” to overwork or to overpay for necessities.
I can understand a distrust towards History in general, because of implicit or explicit manipulation of its contents and purposes during various regimes. I understand the need to triple-examine all certainties. However, refusing to accept that the distant past ever existed is a bit extreme.
I think the real reason people refuse to admit the past is that in truth they refuse to accept that Humanity doesn’t learn from mistakes but is 100% certain and willing to repeat them.
It’s like my 2003 PC questioning the existence of Ghost of Tsushima because it can’t run it. 
Quite so!
Just to be clear, because I may have written that sentence a bit oddly, there is obviously nothing wrong with a good income, a nice house, a new car and wearing a nice set of clothes and looking “fine and dandy”. I think that it is perfectly natural to want all that ( looks aside I want that as well ), but the issue begins when people attribute more to these and take it into a “way of life” level, turning the things they want, to things they “need” or ideological parts of their whole identity.
For example when the car goes beyond being a means of transport and becomes a “symbol of status”, that is bad enough, but when it becomes a “symbol of liberty” (even though iirc a lot of americans never leave the borders of their county, let alone their state ) and politicians can actually use the talking point “they are coming to take your pick-up trucks, the symbol of freedom/the workingclass/ the South/whatever else” things get quite out of line from just “wanting a better life”.
And then, there is one step forward even from that, when you start believing that if other people have what they need, then that takes away your “freedom”. For example, a very common talking point over there in the states against public transport is that this, somehow, reduces the freedom of everyone with cars, when in fact in increases the freedom of movement of those that do not have a car, as if it is compulsory to use public transport and it somehow bothers the car owners.
I mean look at this quote:
Public transit, Americans for Prosperity says, goes against the liberties that Americans hold dear. “If someone has the freedom to go where they want, do what they want,” Ms. Venable said, “they’re not going to choose public transit.”
Which practically is saying “I can afford a car and if you cannot, then that’s against my values and so you shouldn’t have the ability to go anywhere”
And people actually take that stuff seriously. 
Living in small villages has to have some redeeming qualities
But, on a more serious note, even in large towns there are good habits that one could adopt in order to move or walk more.
For example, some of the things I used to do when I lived in large cities (so I know they are do-able):
).I assume that some of those suggestions might be very hard to do if you are wearing heels (even the smaller versions seem very uncomfortable to walk in O_o ), but getting some daily exercise might be a good excuse to do away with them for some occassions/days.
I would laugh, but I have the sneaking suspicion that these ideas have traction.
I had to watch this with automated french subtitles that were auto-translated to engish, which made that extra mind-boggling, but I am fairly certain that your suspicion is correct. There are after all people that seriously peddle the conspiracy that the world itself is half the size, let alone history
(I like his flat-earth debunking videos btw)
Well, if I am 40 minutes late for work I will be fired for sure.
When I go to work I prefer to use the easiest transit way or else I will arrive sweating and with messy hair, not a good impression.
In public transport I use the handles because people usually think I am a pickpocket if I bump on them.
For the rest, indeed we can find a lot of little things we can do easily, like using stairs or walking to nearby destinations but it’s not so easy. Many times it’s just fatigue or lack of money.
Lol you never had a job that requires high heels as official attire and it shows.
And no, carrying yet another bag on top of everything with sports shoes between meetings is not the solution. It must be nice to use Athens public transportation like a mini game.
Ah, the one with the airplane, I still remember that fondly. 
Well, if I am 40 minutes late for work I will be fired for sure.
That’s why I mentioned mostly non-work occassions like going to the supermarket or going out with some friends at night. I will conceed that I never considered what walking might do to hairstyle, because I’ve never had any (style, not hair )
In public transport I use the handles because people usually think I am a pickpocket if I bump on them.
The whole idea applies for cases where the bus/train actually has some room to spare. If it is packed, there are no options anyway
It would have been very weird if I had
It must be nice to use Athens public transportation like a mini game.
I did that in Thessaloniki and Ioannina where 1+ hour of walking was quite feasable when I was not in a hurry to get to work ( in Athens you can walk for two hours and never get anywhere ) Most of the times I had an appointment with friends or just wanted to go eat something at the center, I would walk there despite the time/distance.
In Athens transportation which is full of stairs, I take the manual stairs and then I play another mini-game called “protect my luggage” … I take a position near a wall, keep my back-pack up, my suitcase on the floor between my legs and start the stay-upright tactic I mentioned, even if there are seats available.
Sounds a bit over the top, but so far I’ve never lost any items, so it works.
Personally I walked a lot in Athens, outside work and pre-covid.
I used to walk a lot in Crete, but I was also in different life decades then, so…
Aaaand this is were excuses begin to show up… Do I return home on foot or do I return with enough available free time to avoid this?
…and other similar excuses.