2026: the year in pro-active review

I understand that ignoring someone’s post and happily going on to quibble on a perfectly reasonable sentence is hardly good manners, but I will look over it and keep taking this seriously and answer your question, since English is both our second language and there is a chance that this is still a misunderstanding and not quibbling:

The sentence you quoted has two parts hence the comma and the “but” separating them. In many cases the word “but” is a synonymous to “however” which means that "despite what sentence A is saying, sentence B is heading off to say something else.
For an easier explanation here:

Therefore

Sentence A means:
I have yet to understand what is your exact problem/issue with what I have said so far, because you haven’t made a clear statement of what your actual opinion (or disagreement) even is, other than a general feeling of dissent and just tossing a link for a paper that was full of holes which you failed to notice most probably because you didn’t read it nor considered it much (hence the post above, which you mostly ignored).

and Sentence B means that despite “Sentence A” I will keep taking this seriously and I will go on to discuss further that very particular point you made (about me supposedly not putting enough scrutiny in my posts) and inform you that the whole issue of the potential EV used car market, was actually a point in favour of what I was saying all this time (and I didn’t go into it earlier for brevity’s sake, as you will see in the spoilers below. This is a very complicated matter after all).

Now, hopefully, this misunderstanding has been cleared. :slight_smile:

The essense of the matter remains above for everyone that would like to consider it. My points were as clear and conscice as I can possibly make them for a forum and if you’d like to argue with them I’d be happy to hear what your issue is with those points.

If not, that’s also good, since I had a nice time looking into all of those things. I was not aware of that article and that paper it was based on it and it really drove in the point that I’ve been making in fora for years that we should never just trust papers and headlines blindly and we should really look into the research we are being peddled and thinking critically about it, before putting it in our minds as a “potential fact”. Now, I know that I fail to do that a lot (who has the time to read everything, after all), but it is a good thing to be aware of the issue.

Correct. I agree with that and it is part of my point. :slight_smile:
I mentioned this as an indicator that there are countries where it is/was the norm to change cars every 4-5 years. Sell the old one down the line (be it within the country or outside of it) and buy a new one.

That is what has been happening with the gasoline/diesel cars and we know that and we have data for that (which you have provided and I never argued against it) because that technology is 100+ years old and therefore the used car market for those cars has a lot of historical data for those cars, but we do not really know if the EVs that are getting replaced at the 4-5 year mark, are in fact getting re-bought like their gasoline/diesel equivalents do.

So, I would even go on to say that:

…the estimated gasoline/diesel car’s lifespans could even be longer than that. Even 25 years or 30 or 35 because in many cases that car is not scrapped, but sold in another country where it is out of the French system, but it exists in some other country and they can be found/driven there for many more years (like Top Gear found those cars in Botswana).

However, those are all data for gasoline/diesel cars.

The EV “used car” market hasn’t even been around for 20 years (the reported lifespan of an “old-tech” car) and there are no similar data for EVs for the span for two decades. For example, from your links (if I understand them correctly, my French is laughably bad :sweat_smile: )

This here says that the thermic cars are 89% of the market and if you add to them the non-rechargable hybrids (which are essentially still thermic cars, which a battery that cannot move the car on its own), that goes up to 94%.

You cannot look at the data of that market and extrapolate those numbers for the EVs or the hydrogen cars, because they are very different technologies, with very different used-car markets.

And then there is this:

Which, if I am reading this correctly, means that in order for a car - on average - to reach the range of 120000-130000km on its odometer (where that 122792 kilometers point lies), it will need 10 years on average (though EVs would probably take longer for average, since they are mostly city cars and are driven in shorter trips daily, but let’s not get into it, again, for brevity’s sake). Combined with the above, it means that a lot of those cars will cross that threshhold with their second owner and that’s fine for gasoline/diesel cars because we know the used market for those cars is very robust.

But for the EVs? We do not know, because their used car markets hasn’t really been around for 10-20 years. At the moment, because it is an emergent technology, most EVs do not have a strong “used car” resale (I won’t bore you by re-writing the potential issues, I mentioned the four main ones in my previous post) and a lot of them are, unfortunately, scrapped or “recycled” (it should be noted that gasoline/diesel cars are more likely to be repaired after small accidents, while EV cars are more likely to be declared “totalled” not because the car is destroyed, but because the batteries are too expensive to replace and so they are sent for scrapping. Again, not very enviromental and, again, let’s not get into that for brevity’s sake)

If you look my previous points, I never claimed that EVs cars are bad or that gasoline/diesel cars are better. Each has its usecase and I’d buy an EV myself, if I was within one of its usecases.

On whether the EV cars are better for the environment that the gasoline/diesel cars, we do not know yet, because it is a long-term issue and the EV market has not been around long enough for us to have long-term data. @trohde raised a very good issue and that’s, as far as I can tell, the most honest answer. Car companies and car sellers love to advertise “buy this for the good of the environment”, but so far noone knows if it is true or not, long-term. Not me, not the car companies, not the MIT, not anyone. Because not enough time has passed to make a judgement on such a thing.

Heck, even far more simplier ideas are still under review:

So, even simple things like straws are hard to gauge long-term, so saying that we need to wait a few years to have a verdict on complex products like EV cars, is hardly controvertial or illogical. :slight_smile:

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We may not have data on recent Chinese electric cars, but hybrid cars have been around for three decades with the Toyot Prius, and Tesla has been making electrc cars for a while, so we must have an idea of their lifespan.

I’m not sure how to explain this, but you did not discuss that point I made. You talked about EV used market, not about the logical weakness(es) of your review.

You were criticizing the EV lifespan estimations of experts while you yourself initially ignored the possibility of second hand usage of EVs. If the scientists had done that, you probably would have laughed at them.


So far we know this:

  • Emissions of EVs are worse than those of gas cars during production.
  • But while using them EVs are doing better, so it depends on how long they are used.
  • Estimating how long EVs will be used isn’t easy
  • One expert at MIT says “it’s difficult to find a comparison in which EVs fare worse than internal combustion.”
  • @JethOrensin is not convinced, but doesn’t really provide calculations that support a different conclusion (I get that, it’s hard).

I want to mention an additional point though: If you buy a new car, you have a decent amount of control over how much it is used, you don’t have to sell it after five years.

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Only that I didn’t ignore it.

Am I not talking there about the lifecycles of the EVs and their “used car” markets?

I am. But in your frantic skimming you missed it. :slight_smile:

At least now your petulance is pretty apparent so, considering that you are now demonstrably mostly ignoring the content of my posts, I can see where your impressions come from, but I hardly need to waste time re-writing everything. The posts are there, please read them. In a forum one can only write the posts. I hope you do not expect me to provide an audiobook version of them too. :stuck_out_tongue:

The scientists did a lot worse, like claiming to test a Toyota and a Honda, but used the emmissions of Chinese cars of unknown brands and cars whose specs had nothing to do with those two models, but it seems that you have no issue with that. :slight_smile:

Yeah, if all you are interested is in reading a headline. :rofl:

Nah, just because you are too bored to even read it (but somehow also demand more of it :sweat_smile:), that doesn’t mean I didn’t write it:

I am still waiting your comments on those three points. :slight_smile:

Ah, meta-threading… the unfortunate result of people somehow refusing to read what other people are writing.

Noone said that you “have to”, but that a lot of people do so, exactly by exercising that control over their own property. Especially leasing companies and rent-a-car companies.

Do you honestly think that there are many rent-a-car and leasing companies that currently rent 5+ year old EV models? :sweat_smile:

Okay, yes, sorry. You didn’t initially ignore it. You just ignored it in your review of the article. But my point is still the same: You criticize experts for not being precise enough, while being imprecise yourself in your critique.

I think I’ve said that before, but the reason that I only react to parts of your posts is because they are so long that it’s hard to address everything.

And once again I have the feeling that you don’t seem to understand the things I’m saying anyway. So it all seems a bit futile. I have yet to figure out how to communicate with you in discussions.

If you’re open to it, let’s try this: Pick one question you want me to answer and I’ll give my best to do so.

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I didn’t know that I had to repeat my points in every single one of my posts.
That’s definitely a new one and it definitely would not improve the brevity of my posts. :sweat_smile:

That’s not an understatement, but an outright lie.

Not Precise? :distorted_face:

a) They used as a source for the emission figures for 2019 vehicles, from a report (not a peer-reviewed paper - don’t make me go and see where they took their data from :wink: ) about "Quantifying efficiency technology improvements in U.S. cars from 1975–2009"… what on earth has that got to do with 2019 cars? Pray tell us. Should it at least have come from a report on efficiency improvements of 1975-2019 cars?

b) They claimed to have used a Honda Clarity for their BEV benchmarch, but when it came time to apply the numbers, they put in the numbers of a different car with different specs and potentially even different type of battery. That’s not “imprecision”, that’s outright dishonest (and I am being very mild about that), not to mention that the BEV car they chose was never commercially available and most of them got scrapped before reaching the benchmarks they claimed to have calculated with those values.

c) And to top it off, they supposedly checked two Japanese cars, and they used figures on Chinese cars. That’s what you call “imprecision”? :rofl: In a court room they would have probably called it fraud, just for your information.

d) They didn’t include in their initial figures (which are the ones that your article quoted) the fact that a lot of EVs would probably have to replace their batteries till they reach 180.000 miles and “pushed” that eventuallity to a different section of the paper and called it a “sensitivity analysis” (:sweat_smile:) and they used figures from Tesla and BYD, which is definitely not Toyota and Honda.

e) They didn’t include the fact that EVs are far more likely to be declared “totalled” by the insurance companies, compared to conventional hybrids or diesel vehicles which are far easier to repair (which is a known issue, I’ve provided sources for that) a fact that definitely plays a big role whether those vehicles, as a whole, will cross the threshold that the paper claims would make them more enviromentally friendly than hybrid cars.

Not precise enough? :thinking: Come on.

I was very specific that I was just going to point out “Three things on that article/paper, for the time being and I did as promised.

If you do not understand the phrase “for the time being” and that the report was a 220 page pdf, that is not my issue.

Considering that I found them using wrong data for the wrong cars and for the wrong brands, I didn’t have to point out many more issues now, did I? :sweat_smile:

Are they?
Didn’t you just complain that I didn’t address all the issues of a 220 page report? :sweat_smile:

Maybe you didn’t know because you didn’t bother reading your own article and its sources, but I did do that work (you just skimmed the article and plonked it in a post, without even a comment on its relevance) and I provided you with a simple summary of the deliberate errors of that resource and you failed to read even those three points, but you still just complained that I didn’t cover 220 pages and that I was not “precise enough”.

The audacity. :smiley:

Now, I understand that my posts are tedious and that many people skip them and that’s fine, however when you choose to reply to them you can at least skim them and reply about the content and the actual points made, not about quibbling on the word “precise” or “but” or whether a I put enough scrutiny in a post that you just admitted that you didn’t read in full. :wink: That’s bad forum ettiquette.

If you didn’t read my post and you found it too long/convoluted/boring/whatever-else then either just don’t reply to it or just say “lol, I am not reading that wall of text”. Both choices are very valid. :slight_smile:

Fair enough.
One simple question then, just out of curiosity: Considering the erroneous (to put it mildly again) claims of the article/research that you posted and the fact that EVs are still a new and emergent technology, would you agree or disagree with the simple point that “we will need a couple of decades to accurately measure and decide whether EVs are better for the environment than hybrids or not and, till then, noone really knows the answer to that question”?

It is actually a “yes, I agree with that statement” or “no, I disagree with it” question, so it doesn’t get more simple than that.


On other news:

More unrest in the region. :confused:

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Yes, I agree with that statement.

Now I’ll assume you agree with:

  • When evaluating to by a new car, you can never know in advance if it’s actually worth it (in terms of priorities, whether those are monetary or environmental or whatever).
  • You have to do a prediction and hope it’s good enough. It will never be perfect.

If you do, then may I ask whether there are any cars you think to be best for the environemt and if you have or know of any predictions to support that?

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This is your best bet:


Does not use fossil fuels. Makes use of wood, so you can literally grow some of the parts.

Added bonus: you don’t have to worry about chargers. It’s also good cardio.

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Glad to hear this.

Of course I do. Any product or purchase has an inherent existense of risk, even just on the level of “some of the millions of products made by company X, are statistically bound to be defective”.

You could try to lower the risk and buy the best and most reliable type and brand of car (e.g. Toyota has a better reliability track record than Alpha Romeo), but still be among the unlucky few that got the rare defective one. It happens. :slight_smile:

In a sense I have already replied to that, when I posted that example of the real numbers of the 2026 Suzuki Vitara. Modern hybrid cars have improved a lot since that article was written and if you buy a reliable and fuel efficient hybrid car, then it is comparable to buying a full EV in terms of the environment, if you view the full picture.

Even in terms of emissions the gaps has shortened significantly, here are two modern 2026 Toyota cars, of comparable size and comparable luxury:

Not that much of difference, is there? :slight_smile:

Two important notes here:

A) That is an american website. In the EU we have stricter regulations and the Toyota cars have lower co2 emissions (I went and checked - see below), so the gap is even smaller in Europe.

B) Those are just approximations for the EVs.
Because while you certainly know what kind of fuel the Camry is taking, you cannot certainly know from what kind of energy mix the electric power of the EV was taken, during its lifetime.
A Camry will burn gasoline in the USA and in Austria, however an EV will not have the same energy mix electricity in Oregon, or Texas, or Vienna. In some places the electricity will be “cleaner” (especially if the owner has their own panels at home) and in others it won’t be.

Now consider the issues mentioned before like:
a) The fact that creating an EVs has a larger environmental impact and that an EV needs to stay on the road for quite a few number of tens of thousands of kilometers just to offset that initial extra environmental burden
b) The fact that EVs can be declared totalled just by suffering minor damages
c) EVs have also other minor, but as yet not exactly explored environmental costs like the fact that they need to have larger tyres (due to their increased weight) and those tyres need to be replaced more frequently than Hybrid cars
d) The emergent techology status of EVs (which means a more fickle used car market)
…and other factors mentioned in earlier posts, means that:

The conclusion is:

That as long as you do not buy a gas-guzzler or a performance sports cars, but you buy a reasonable and realible hybrid car, then long-term it will be very comparable environmentally as if you had bought a totally electric powered vehicle.

In case of Toyota, since that brand was mentioned in that report:

All those 5 cars have between 85 to 101 grams of CO2, per kilometer.

This means that if you convert 85 grams of CO2 per kilometer to american miles (1.6 kilometers iirc) and put those values in that website above, you get this:

Which is a negligible difference.

Similar results can be achieved by other regular brands of cars, as well, like Honda, Suzuki, Dacia, Renault, Skoda and so forth. Porsche and Ferrari, not so much. :stuck_out_tongue:

I hope this answers your question. :slight_smile:

Tl; Dr;

If you buy a “common sense” car, you will get “common sense” results.

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The carbon footprint of electric cars heavily depends on your country.

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Yes, as I mentioned above, it is all about how that electricity is generated in each country.

However, if someone is worried for their own personal “carbon footprint” then the solution of installing panels is the best, since it definitely outperforms any carbon footprint an EV or a normal hybrid car can have, and you no longer need to care from whence the national electricity comes from.

For example, my meager 8x400W panel system has so far produced 13.77 MW of electricity, out of which 3.5 MW have gone back to the grid for free.

On average an EV does 5 kilometers per kW.
I have produced 13770 kWs, so that means that I have offset a distance of travel equivalent to 68850 kilometers and, during the same amount of time, there are less than 11000 kilometers on my odometer (considering that, even the 3.5 MWs that I have returned to the grid, could have offset my odometer), so I guess that gives me quite the positive carbon footprint. :slight_smile:

If those numbers from the solar panels’ control system are even close to being accurate, I have offset both the CO2 environmental cost of the creation of my car (around 6-7 tons of CO2 on average) and the distance it has covered so far, with almost a ton of “CO2 saved” to spare. Not bad, if I say so myself.

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Yes, thank you, that answers my question. What’s interesting to me is the fact, that the C-HR Active Hybrid has 105 gCO2/km and is presumably more similar to whatever specific model https://bge.chooseev.com/carbon/ uses for “C-HR AWD 20inch” than something like the Yaris with its 86 gCO2/km.

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It could be a difference between the cars that the companies offer between different countries. For example the one in the website is AWD (practically 4 wheel drive), while the ones in the image are 2 wheel drive. The 20inch I assume is talking about the wheels/tyres and those also play a lot of role in consumption, narrower tyres means less consumption, as well as their air pressure.

In general, the AWD cars tend to consume a bit more fuel (be that gasoline or electricity) and have less efficiency from their 2WD counterparts of the same model.

A similar issue ensued from the gearbox, a manual gearbox is on average more fuel efficient, while an automatic one is less efficient (especially if it is a CVT, I think, but I am not very knowledgeable on automatic gearboxes. I only drive manuals).

If you want some numbers that Vitara I mentioned earlier is good enough since their website is very clear, since they have 4 versions of the same car:

A 2WD manual with 5,3 liters/100km and WLTP:119-120 CO2 grams per km
A 2WD automatic with 5,7-5,8 liters/100km and WLTP:129-130 CO2 grams per km
An AWD manual with 5,4 liters/100km and WLTP:128-129 CO2 grams per km
and an AWD automatic with 5,8-5,9 liters/100km and WLTP:137-139 CO2 grams per km

And, of course, those are the average numbers.
What is very important after all that is the individual’s driving style. I drive in a reasonable style and I get the factory numbers for my vehicle. A friend of mine has a car from the same brand, but is a more aggressive driver and he has higher numbers than the average provided by the company. The car can get those numbers, but his driving style is more fuel consuming.

Fuel consumption is quite the complicated issue.

P.S.
That is a very nice price on that Yaris. Good deal.

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Well, the Yaris Active Hybrid and the C-HR Active Hybrid are directly comparable on Toyota’s website. But yes, it’s harder to compare them with the fully electric C-HR Active (or the model on that emission comparison site).

Interesting, I would have guessed automatic ones to be more efficient.

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Very interesting… I often wonder though, and I’ve asked that question before mostly for companies, but what will happen when you run out of places to move to? :thinking:

That timestamp is checking every clickbait keyword you find in Rightoid English language social media: economy, taxes, welfare, family, safety, “democracy”, free speech etc.

Also, his choice of words and articles’ snapshots is full of dogwhistling like this one:

His comment liking choices are interesting as well. The top comments are a posterchild neo-Nazi comment section on Youtube: Poland is a utopia, UK and Sweden are collapsing etc.

He is milking those MAGA views

Can’t wait for his next video titled “Only AfD can save Germany” of an interview with Alice Weidel.

I don’t understand why some people have so much a problem with an equal society. They always need a hierarchy to feel superior to certain groups below them and envy/admire above them. That’s why socialism is unpopular.

Probably our friend should watch his neighbor Schwarzenegger’s Message https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsETTn7DehI

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I saw this one when it came out (probably someone also shared it at the time, I do not remember that detail) and it is also interesting. :slight_smile:

What I am mostly worried about is where this whole idea of “this place is doomed, I am going somewhere else” going to lead, considering that we only have one planet and the land is not infinite.

I am fortunate enough to live in a corner of land that noone seems to want or like very much (that fellow in the video isn’t coming to live here and wouldn’t ever consider it, and that’s for sure :stuck_out_tongue: ), but that doesn’t mean that I can just simply pretend that such a global issue doesn’t exist. After all, most of my friends have immigrated abroad.

That, at least, is very easy to answer: Because there is no such thing.

Even on the very reasonable basis of “having equality in front of the law”, that also never happens. So, if we cannot even achieve that very basic benchmark, then it goes without saying that even higher applications/meanings of the phrase “equal society” are also utopic.

While I totally agree with the psychological part of this (there seems to be some inherent human need for structure and distribution of power. As a public wisdom phrase says here “some people own dogs, so they can claim to have power over something in their sorry lives” and it is true in many cases :roll_eyes: ), I have to point out that there is a practical aspect that cannot be ignored.

As far as I can tell, there is no state-wide governing system without a hierarchy and delegation/appropriation/distribution of power. The scale and range of such a governing system, demands the existence of some kind of power distribution.

I will agree with Jimmy Carr’s estimation that everyone is a communist and socialist and libertarian and at the same time isn’t.

So, it is not that socialism is “unpopular”.
Everyone understands the concept, at least in its more basic iterations and everyone applies it at some facet of their lives.

However, when you try to make one solution fit every problem, that’s where things become sketchy.

It is just like trying to have a “unified theory of everything” in physics. So far, it hasn’t worked, but that doesn’t mean that each theory is bad or unpopular. It just solves a different problem in different conditions.

P.S.
Though I have to say that it is a bit sad when comedians seem to be more articulate about politics, than politicians themselves. Well, Carr is much more educated and articulate than most politicians, but still…

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I can understand why people want to leave poor countries, or countries at war, or countries where they are persecuted. But Germany, seriously? Most places on Earth are worse. And people in other rich countries are complaining too about their economy.

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