Almost antique corner sequences

Maybe 20-25 years ago I picked up these two joseki books at the club. Published in 1966, and I haven’t the faintest idea who wrote them. Actually 1966 was the only thing I was able to read in these books :grin:
Each book contains 3000 diagrams of all kinds of joseki.

My plan is to share - from time to time - some josekis with you.
And since these are (almost) antique joseki’s they might be a bit exotic or even smell a bit funny and old fashioned, but may also lead to new insights.

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1966, looks like a “small” dictionary in Japanese (my easy guess by Nihon Kiin)

I suspect It will be hard to find something very different from the content of the “small” Ishida dictionary (3 vol, Ishi Press) which was published around a decade later and… which is in full English.

I remain interested, at least the Ishida may help for your research.

For anyone interested, I used to get old Japanese books through http://www.wakuwakumono.com/services/

There are some real gems for less than a dollar. Like this “severe invasions” book that I love.

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Clickbait! I demand to see some corner sequences.

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Demand all you want. When I have found one I will post it and not a second earlier.

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Here’s the images unflipped:

0eaa56bf606c92b11786ed582d193f39ec6384dc_2_690x459 be1a3c0178c11e6a31bf1755c7d18af3eba0f71a_2_690x459

These are the small joseki dictionary (定石小辞典), to contrast the large dictionary (Igo Daijiten 囲碁大辞典) written by the first author (among others), honourable 9dan (名誉九段) Suzuki Tamejirou (鈴木為次郎). The second author of these books is 9d Kitani Minoru (九段 木谷実).

The first picture is marked as the second volume (下), the second picture is marked as the first volume (上).

The second volume (first image) treats komoku / 3-4 (小目), takamoku / 4-5 (高目) and mokuhazushi / 3-5 (目はずし) joseki.
The first volume (second image) treats hoshi / 4-4 (星), sansan / 3-3 (3三) and “super” joseki? Not really sure about the meaning of 超定石…

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I guess authors of these “small” dictionaries refer to it being small compared to the larger dictionaries. But it doesn’t look very small, indeed…

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honourable 9dan (名誉九段) Suzuki Tamejirou (鈴木為次郎)

1883–1960, one of the last living “classical” Go professionals.

He (barely) outlasted Karigane ('79–'59) and was outlasted himself by Segoe ('89–'72).

“classical” could be defined here as being professionally active before 1925, having played against Shuei, having been a member of an iemoto house or the Hoensha, etc.

I wouldn’t regard the cohort of Go Seigen, Kitani, Takagawa, Sakata and so on as being classical professionals.

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Why?

“classical” could be defined here as being professionally active before 1925, having played against Shuei, having been a member of an iemoto house or the Hoensha, etc.

For these criteria, amongst others.

If you pressed me to define my concept of Classical Go, I would say that it took place from the foundation of the iemoto professional system in 1612 to the formation of the Nihon Kiin in 1924.

I’d also suggest that it splits into an Early Classical and Late Classical period, separating in the early 19th C., the split marked by a resurgence of influential play ideas due to Yasui Senchi and Honinbo Jowa. To be exact, I might place it in 1827, when Jowa became the head of the Honinbo house.

To revisit the topic, I tend to use this sort of chronology.

The key thing to understand is that these periods can have narrow or broad ranges depending on which events one wishes to use to define them. The events are almost arbitrary; what one tries to describe is the character of the era.

For instance, one could just as easily end the Early Modern era with Sakata’s landmark victory a year earlier in the 1961 Honinbo, or the Interclassical with Shusaku’s death in 1862.

Here is one possible conception:

Era Dates Span Cause of end
Pre-Classical – 1612 < 1000 yr. in Jp. (?) formation of the iemoto house system
Early Classical 1612 – 1827 115 yr. Jowa becomes Honinbo, promoting influential play
Interclassical 1827 – 1863 36 yr. Castle Games end
Late Classical 1863 – 1924 61 yr. Nihon Kiin formed
Early Modern 1924 – 1962 38 y. Meijin and Judan tournaments founded
Intermodern 1962 – 1988 26 y. Ing Cup founded
Late Modern 1988 – 2016 28 y. AI revolution
Hypermodern 2016- 5 y. so far

I’ve written about these ideas on the forums before.

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Great contribution, Thanks.

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(7) Small knight approach of 4-4

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(44) Variation

Feel free to comment, start a discussion and/or show what AI thinks of this variation.

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Out of sheer frustration about all those players who play E5 in a 9x9 game and I never know what to do, I will focus on the 5-5 opening. For inspiration so to say :grin:

(2978) 5-5 joseki

I didn’t find this one in Joseki Explorer (or maybe I just missed it). To be honest I don’t know much about how Joseki Explorer works.
So, before committing a faux pas: @mark5000, @aesalon, can I add joseki’s and under what conditions / rules?

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Adding and Editing OGS Joseki · online-go/online-go.com Wiki · GitHub has some guidelines. You will have to be granted access.

5-5 and odd corner patterns would be useful. Personally, I err on the side of not adding (old) book diagrams that haven’t seen play. Especially when there is plenty of evidence that professionals had the opportunity to play it and instead chose other joseki.

Anything that you see in a book that has a couple of pattern hits in a pro game database is welcome.

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It’s notable that Black would like P15, the original stone, to be turning at Q15 instead.

I’d also consider this variation:

image

And this one:

image

Of course, it’s White with the power to decide whether or not to enter these lines with (6), which appears to be a key branching move. Just as it’s White who decides on (2) in the first place.

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When I think about the classes of move, there are:

  • Current joseki (with play)
  • Old joseki (with play)
  • Book moves
  • Lecture moves
  • Bot moves
  • Presumed mistakes and refutations

As long as each category is clearly marked, there should be no problem.

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Two more 5-5: variations.

(2976) 5-5: variation

(2977) 5-5: variation

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(2979) And one more 5-5 joseki.

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