Divination and go matches

General Go Discussion
107

I’m not sure that I understand this. Can we choose a game that is already completed? Can it be a game between professionals? Or does it have to be an ongoing game (correspondence)? Or are you saying it can also be a game that has not yet begun?

I’m also having trouble understanding this. If we show you the final position, won’t you know the result of the game without having to make a prediction?

I’m sorry if these are silly questions. I think this is a very cool project and I just want to make sure I understand!

108

I would like to see a prediction of major professional tournaments if that’s possible

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109

Let me explain a bit more, I was a little brief earlier🤭

Basically, it’s possible to predict the outcome of an entire game, as I’ve tried to do before. However, I want to explore how hexagrams relate to positions on the board first, and then return to predicting wins and losses. It is believed that each hexagram has a certain direction, but it’s hard to figure out where that direction is on the board — whether the south is considered the top side or the bottom. This influences the interpretation of other hexagrams. (It’s unlikely that the south is in a corner, but who knows?) That’s why I need to gather data. I’m collecting it myself, but it would be faster if someone just asked questions😅 (compared to waiting for an even game to appear, this would save a lot of time).

It’s better to start small and gradually move on to bigger things. That’s why I wanted to choose either the beginning or the end of the game (the beginning has fewer stones, so it would be easier to understand the basic four sides and corners, while the end is good because everything is already clearly divided).

Now about the games:

  1. You can indeed choose an already finished game, just don’t show it to me, ask a question, and then compare my prediction with the actual outcome.
  2. A game with professionals is possible, I think, but if they are playing in person (at a physical location), I would need the exact start date of the game, and I can try to predict it. (If the game has already ended, a regular question will work.)
  3. Playing by correspondence is cool, but it will take a lot of time to compare the results, so I don’t think it’s suitable.
  4. And yes, for a game that hasn’t started yet🤭 it’s possible to predict the outcome for a specific person’s future game (if it’s possible to predict fate, why not predict a game that hasn’t begun yet?)

Oh, it seems the translator didn’t translate correctly. The outcome of the game should only be shown after I’ve answered your question so that we can compare where the ideas are right and where they fall short.

The challenge is to specify a particular game and ask a specific question about that game. (What if someone wants to ask a question without picking a game first, and then choose games that fit or don’t fit the prediction?)

Also, I want to clarify😄 I have issues with the directions and positioning on the board, so I don’t think this will be interesting to those looking for concrete examples that either confirm or refute the concept of fortune-telling. This is just practice, which would be very helpful to me. (Later on, when Jon_ko and I start predicting games, I want to predict not only who wins — white or black — but also the positioning. That’s where there will be more food for thought regarding the practice of fortune-telling.)

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110

Im can try, but I want to clarify the location on the board for now, if you sometimes watch the games (I do not know if the professionals are playing in the “watch” section) then you can see my predictions there, I sometimes write the outcome in the chat and thereby check myself (well, at the same time I scare people so that they do not relax, thinking that magic does not exist :sweat_smile::face_with_hand_over_mouth:)

There are a couple of games that turned out to be good at predicting, I’ll give you examples right now, although I write there in Russian… (I won 't show you examples of bad predictions, it 's too embarrassing. :skull_and_crossbones:)

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111

I liked reading your predictions in these. Would it be possible for you to also share the hexagrams used to reach each of these predictions? It would be very cool to see the relationship between the hexagram and your analysis.

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112

Here is a link to the first 64 moves of a game I just finished on Fox, where I was White:
Demo board

Some context: I resigned to my opponent in our previous game, and my opponent asked if I would like to play again.

My question: Which player will have the lower-left corner at the end of the game? (If this question is too specific, I’d still be interested in any other insights you may have!)

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113

I do not dare to reveal the deeper principles, but I can show a few things.

I don’t fully remember all the images. The image of Zhen appeared. Besides representing wood and the eldest son, this image also has a specific symbol—a cup standing upright. For this wood, the color black came up, which is why I predicted the image of a cup. As for the covering in white, that is the image of Gen.

114

Oh! Let’s give it a try. I will now make a prediction about your question.

The bottom left corner will be occupied by white, but black will invade it. I assume black’s movement will come from above, going downward. White will form a shape resembling a square in that corner and will aim to create straight shapes overall. White will be pushing black out, with a couple of moves involving pushing and covering.

And if you wish, you can give me the number of characters for both players (I mean the characters in their nicknames) (periods, commas, dashes, etc. are considered characters; spaces are not).

I will try to make a basic prediction about the outcome, and then test the reasons and also a bit about the positioning.

115

I would like to do this, but I cannot do it right this moment, as I’m away from my computer that has Fox on it. I will find that information later today, if I find the time, otherwise tomorrow.

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116

Ah, and I almost forgot. I also need the date (though there’s an issue with time zones, yippee! (I didn’t think this issue would come up so soon)). So just let me know when the game will start. I’ll check forum in from time to time.

117

So what happend to you? Still going with “i own magic powers”?

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118

Yes. I am still here. It is a pity that in the West predictions are considered something magical. The same Shao Yong criticized sorcerers and magicians, while he had this method of prediction, which I still follow.

Well… since the Middle Ages in europe they still did not think to look closely into things and find patterns. Of course, ordinary people can call this magic… uh…okay..:laughing:

I go more deeply into the causes of victory or defeat in weiqi. I wrote to Jon_Ko that I need more time.
In view of sound skepticism, it is not enough to predict victory and defeat, it is necessary to indicate by which exact method the game will be won, whether there will be a resignation, or not, the number of moves in the game. This is important not only for “confirming one’s “𝓶𝓪𝓰𝓲𝓬𝓪𝓵” abilities” for the amusement of the public, but also for one’s own verification. I do not blindly believe in “magic”; if it works — it works. If not — it is a thing for the trash. If in the end it turns out that all this is nonsense, well then. I will accept this as a fact and will engage in something else.

Now. if it is interesting to someone. I still predict random games.

  1. I learned to determine the outcome, for what reason the game will be won

  2. I have problems with determining the leading color. (the outcome works like on a thread, but this is sometimes done not by black, but by white.)

  3. I began to deal with the timing of the game, for now it is difficult, but there are hits

I think, when the first two points are sufficiently polished, I will be ready to begin a new practice for the amusement of the public. Everything else will already go later.

119

I’m pretty sure that if you can predict victory and defeat 9 out of 10 times that people would find that impressive enough.

However, I am curious that, if predicting Go game outcomes takes years of practice, why you wouldn’t practice predictions on something with a more tangible benefit.

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120

Well some people will still visit a fortune teller or psychic or whichever and ask for future predictions from whichever method they happen to use.

I think the part that makes it more magical sounding is that typically the methods involved have nothing to with the thing the prediction is about, except existing in the same reality.

If you want to predict the outcome of a football game, a person that: analyses past recent performances of the teams; factors in conditions of the players; the playing location; the weather; (things we know will directly impact the players and the playing condition), is relatively easy to believe to have some predicting power, whether they do it well or not.

But if you want to predict the outcome of a football game with a tarot deck, or the I-Ching, or a handful of dice, it’s harder I would say, to believe in its predicting power.

So rather you would trust less the method, and trust more the person that can demonstrate good results with their methods.

If someone can predict well the outcomes of events, and has done in the past, it’s easier to believe they can do it again - even if you don’t fully understand the method.

As a side note, because it was topical again with the Artemis launch, it was mentioned there’s a number of rituals and superstitions to do with a new launch.

Maybe an example ^^, but it was mentioned a bunch of things the astronauts tend to do out of tradition, like losing money on poker or some card game, to get rid of the bad luck etc.

It’s similar in that, again, it’s not easy to believe that any ritual or tradition that has nothing to do with the launch, is the real reason why a launch was successful.

Still people do it, and then when it’s successful it’s hard to say it’s because of the rituals etc that it was successful, more so than say actual preparations and checks that might make it a success anyway. (Though I’m sure things that can make you relaxed and psychologically in a good mood, shouldn’t be discounted)

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121

The problem is that the principles given in the book are diverse, and it is difficult to understand which logic to follow.
Regarding the prediction of game outcomes and human affairs: one could, of course, immediately take on something large and try to understand all human affairs; however, this will most likely lead to disappointment if you do not possess perfect wisdom.
Therefore, I clarify the matter in the “small” — in weiqi, because I love this game! And then, having roughly understood the principles, one can extend them to something larger, such as human affairs.
It does not matter if this takes more than ten years, since I intend to understand this matter with the utmost thoroughness.

122

Ok that makes sense. This isn’t to debate you, but I am curious, isn’t weiqi still very complex, compared to for example checkers?

123

Well… personally, I think checkers and chess are somewhat inferior in variability compared to weiqi. Of course, all of these games are wonderful, but I prefer weiqi for its instability. I’ve had a couple of games where a single move could completely overturn the outcome—almost like in life. It is precisely this aspect of weiqi that makes it interesting for prediction.

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