Just to add my voice in support of this but also to echo @Kosh about the usefulness of the AI tools. Having said that, hopefully the AI features are there now so turning to teaching/reviewing tool enchantments will be possible.
I also think that rengo and variants are pretty niche. Correspondence rengo anyone? … Thought not!
I think the AI updates make sense from a business perspective. I would guess a reasonable amount of site supporters use the AI analysis feature, and that’s probably some decent amount of the sites income.
Take into account that AI-sensei is probably a direct competitor to this, given it offers very similar features (equivalent of site supporters) at similar AI strengths and prices, and AI sensei recently announced it was also introducing a live analysis mode, I think it made sense for OGS to keep up with that development to stay in the game competitively.
But I look forward to more teaching features and possibly rengo at some point
So we need to figure out and recommend some way of monetising teaching mode… who would pay for what I wonder?
I think that’s disingenuous! The point as I understood it was not that all features should be monetised but rather that the fact that feature makes money is one factor in prioritisation.
Hmm. You accused my of being disingenuous because you thought that I was playing dumb and pretending that the point of other people’s posts was that all features should be monetised, and responding to that point thusly.
But I wasn’t at all considering that other people had implied the feature should be monetised.
I was being far more pragmatic: I was observing that if a feature we all want is monetisable then it clearly is best for everyone - better for OGS because it can generate income and better for those who want it because it will get implemented sooner.
Therefore, I genuinely was inviting brainstorming about how to monetise this feature…
Ah ok, well good luck then!
I think a well implemented ‘Teaching mode’ would pay for itself by attracting new people to the site.
Typically, teachers would already be familiar with the site and many ‘students’ would be new to the site or simply persuaded to persist with the help of the feature.
Well in theory teachers, people that make a living from teaching go. There’s some go schools/teachers that already use OGS for teaching purposes.
I think though if you want people to pay for it it has to be some decent package without a free and easy alternative. If people are happy with KGS teaching features as is, they probably won’t pay for some new OGS feature unless it was a lot better than the alternatives.
So in terms of real suggestions, if you wanted to monetise teaching features it would have to be some kind of package, think site supporters meets teacher privileges.
- the current site supporter stuff except with a new badge/color etc for teachers
- maybe create some place to share teaching resources privately. Imagine SGF library+, where you can store not only SGF library files for practice problems but maybe lots of other resources too. Maybe some customisable html pages to store links or embed videos where access can be toggled for new/finished students. OGS features could be probably be used more than they are, like the puzzles section could be used for tsumego packages in a similar way Leon Chen & xhu98’s books work eg. Planet (2021), my second tsumego book with Leon Chen 4p, now available on OGS Puzzles!
- some extra chat/help section for teachers separate from the supporters chat. Probably access to some extra docs and things to help people get set up with teaching on OGS.
- Probably would want a teachers section on the site, that lists the active teachers (assuming they wanted to be included), something to make them visible. Something like a “find me a teacher option”, or a request teachers review feature. Add in a feature where ordinary users can request reviews for their games, either from any available teacher, or a specific subset of teachers, and the games get added to a queue which the teachers can filter by whether they were requested specifically. I don’t know if this feature would want to be monetised in itself, or whether maybe it’s just a clean way for students to ask their current teachers to review a specific game, centralise all the game links.
- Probably some extra list feature where teachers can add students to their list, (similar to friends lists maybe) where you can easily find your OGS students and their recent games, even ones that were requested for review in the previous bullet point.
It should also be stuff that’s just on top of ordinary teaching features, like this teaching mode game that was being discussed, and probably Clossius’ live AI analysis with shared viewing, Interactive AI analysis is now available - #38 by Clossius1 since that seems to be teaching oriented. It would also be a useful way to teach people how to review their games with AI too, if they can watch someone either stronger, more used to doing it or both do a review with it.
TLDR+ disclaimer I don’t know if this is the direction the site would want to go in, or any of these are features people want. Just some ideas of what might be worth paying for.
It’s kind of already almost implemented, seeing as @xhu98 's tsumego books are sold here on OGS, it shouldn’t be too hard to sell other services, right?
Edit: haha whoops looks like shin beat me to it by a few mins great minds and all that
Yes, it’s very probable that those won’t be the only two tsumego packages Leon Chen 4p and I are offering
What about adding a tip button to teachers or something and ogs gets a cut? That would likely make more than a teaching package
I mean it might require less work, but why would they use OGS rather than Patreon, Paypal or any other number of services?
Not huge cash flow, but isn’t a big part of the reason the AGF bankrolls KGS that they have the teaching tools to support pro lectures?
If that’s the case, OGS might not need to directly monetize. The draw in users if we became the “go-to” for lectures would be a major value-add.
I don’t really love the idea of monetizing this way, but worth noting that a major video site with the initials YT supports patreon-like functionality. The major benefit is that you don’t have to leave the site and your credit card details may already be saved. So I think that would be a reason people don’t use the existing methods you mentioned.
Thanks for all the input concerning this matter.
In order to have AI analysis, servers have to be maintained to crunch all the numbers and that would need some serious upkeep, hence it is only natural that it costs money and I am happy to pay for it.
However, teaching go IRL is IMHO something that many players feel is something teachers benefit from as well as the students. Spreading Go like this becomes a goal for many. Go is about learning and I am happy that I found a lot of open-minded guys who are willing to teach, often completely free of charge. Their heart-driven intentions appeal to me. I found a 5d from the other side of the world who offers me teaching games whenever it fits and I am so happy he does! In order to honour this, teaching game functionality is not only a way to attract new players but also a way to make it possible for teachers to be able to follow their intentions, which is spreading knowledge. I feel that it is everybody’s personal choice if they want to charge anything… so patreon PayPal and Co is all fine. But providing the tools on a website that encourages learning and has the goal to spread the love for the game is a completely different thing. I understand it is all work but if we had to pay everything that is implemented here by the good work of our wonderful devs I don’t think OGS would be were it is now… we need people who do this free of charge and we couldn’t do without them.
To support ogs instead of patreon
FYI, there is actually support for a teacher user class. The color is currently green, no badge (yet). (See: Screenshot of player class colors)
Just to mention that there are two types of teachers: people who do it as a living, and as their main activity at OGS, and ordinary OGS players who also like to teach once in a while. They don’t differ in what features they would enjoy for teaching, but they differ in how they should be identified (as by color).
That could integrate other events (tournaments for ex)