Go ranks vs chess ratings

Here’s the hard data so far.

Player Go IRL OGS ch. IRL Lich. Ch .com Go st ch. st Go gm chess gm
terrific None 5d None 1700? None 7,000? 40
gennan 3d EGF 3d None 1100 None 1988 1975 8,000 100
mc2006 None 2d 1800 OSCF 2100 2000 2010 2011 500 2,000
Allerleirauh None 2d None 1900 Cl.
Sofia 1k EGF var. None 800 None 2013 40
civilian None 2k None None 1100 2021 2020 2,500 4,000
bugcat 5k EGF 3k None 1600 None 2016 2017 2,400 4,400
Aumpa 8k AGA 4k None 1500
benjito None 7k None 1000 None
Feijoa None 7k None 1300 None 940 37

I notice that so far, the only person (mc2006) who 1) has a dan rank and 2) declared at least 1,000 chess games is indeed over 2000 Elo (Lichess, Chess .com).

Though Allerleirauh didn’t say how many chess games he’d played.

So, the minimal “@Allerleirauh hypothesis” (if I’m not putting words in his mouth) that “a dan player with enough (eg. 1,000) games of chess will eventually reach 2000” seems to be supported by the data gathered thus far.

But the information is still very spotty.

1 Like

To seed discussion of a cross-game (eg. Go-chess) tournament, you might want to see the conversation started last May at Exploring other board games -- a challenge - #113 by bugcat.

It stops and starts a few times over the last fifty posts of the thread.

I remember that, but that suggestion was more about a long list of different games together (and the way to manage it.)

It was. Only linked on the off-chance it’d be useful.

I suppose that go reading skills would translate to other games, such as chess, and vice versa. But to reach dan level in go or 2000 chess rating, I think one needs more than reading ability alone. Without some amount of theoretical knowledge/guidance, I expect one gets stuck before reaching ~6k or ~1500 chess rating.

I’ve played some chess “teaching” games with a co-worker who is ~1800 lichess (he got some lessons when he was in a chess club in his youth). He did notice that unlike a regular chess novice, I have some reading ability: with sufficient time, I rarely hang my pieces and I can spot some basic tactics such as forks.
But my chess reading is not better than his. And besides reading ability, he has a fair amount of knowledge about the opening and the endgame. So I may keep a fairly even game until the late opening / early middle game, but I have no chance at all to win (or even draw).

I think chess is interesting, but I’m not interested enough to invest a lot of time in practice and study.

EGF
Played chess since childhood with chess school and everything, so probably a lot of games.


I assumed Clossy is like 3d, so lichess 2000 which is like 1d wouldn’t be too hard. Doesn’t mean he won’t need any learning but. But the brain is already used to this gamified thinking of alternating turns, initiative and so on, and to the relatively high level. Nothing stopping it from doing the same in chess. A normal regular person who might be unaccustomed to this type of thinking will have to reforge their brain to a great extent and maybe they aren’t built for this type at all, so they’ll be 9k forever, despite what all the “you can do it” crowd might say.

You can see that great players in one game can be decent in another game. Cho Chikun plays shogi, Nie Weiping - bridge or something,

Grandmaster Alexander Morozevich has EGF 1d, maybe it’s not too accurate but around there.

Grandmaster Tiger Hillarp Persson reached 1d KGS they say.

So at some point of proficiency, you can reach 1d in similar games.

2 Likes

A general fact is that if you are good at some subject X and take time to study subject Y, then you generally become good or at least decent at Y because you are used to putting intellectual effort.

X and Y can be absolutely unrelated subjects.

In my case: 5k EGF, 1d OGS, 2500 a bit less than 4000 go games, play go since 2016. I have never played much chess, maybe 100 games, and my chess level must be around 1000 on lichess (don’t have stable rank on any chess server).

1 Like

How do you know? I have no idea how many go games i played (many ofc)

It was a rough estimate that turned out to be completely wrong. In fact I recounted again and it must be closer to 4000 go games. Details:

Fox 231
Tygem 205
IGS 738
KGS 500? (Don’t know, the total number used to be accessible via kgs.gosquares.net but now the website requires a login).
OGS 1711
Club/friendly games 250?
EGF rated 144
Against my smartphone 200?
I also played a negligible number of games on WBaduk and on yikeweiqi.

3 Likes

I’m 1300-1400 lichess depending on blitz or rapid, and 19Kyu on OGS.
I’m pretty sure I’m much better at chess than I am at Go, but aiming to catch up my level of Go to be equivalent to my level of chess.

4 Likes

He is a solid 1d EGF
I lost to him in the 5th round of the EGC 2019 (Brussels). His tactics were quite strong, and perhaps the main reason I lost (also, I probably underestimated his tactical ability until it was too late).

After the game he told me he is more a chess player than a go player. I looked him up later and discovered he is a GM :sweat_smile:

6 Likes

In the Netherlands there is Willy Hendriks, 3d EGF in go and IM in chess.

2 Likes

Here is a game I played with Tiger in the Swedish championships 2021:

Transcribed as far as I could remember. It was an even game with some ups and downs in the graph. In the remaining game he overstretched a bit trying to make a comeback and F15 ended up dying IIRC.

He will probably reach solid 2d soon :slight_smile: He seems to take go quite seriously despite it not being his main game. I think he’s been active in his local go club for the past few years.

2 Likes

We might be able to see if a strong go player can learn and improve fast at chess:

2 Likes

Chess GM Tiger Hillarp did well in the Dutch Open that was held in the previous weekend, ranking up to 2d EGF: Tiger Hillarp | Player card | E.G.D. - European Go Database

I’m 1300 chess.com 17-18 kyu OGS

I play chess so more seriously 2 years, 2020-22
Go only been a month.
Chess 3000 games Rapid 15 + 10, online and quite a lot more live.
I also have 5 chess categories won in a live tournament.
Go 200 game 13x13, 22 19x19, 60 9x9.
After a month in chess, I had 700-800 elo on chess.com, and after a month in Go, I have 18-17 kyu, so I suspect these may be very approximate figures.
I wonder what level I will be able to achieve in go after 2 years.
What do you think is the equivalent of 1300 chess.com in kyu degrees?

1 Like

If you toggle from kyu to ratings on your profile you can check OGS elo (we use glicko-2 just like lichess)

2 Likes

Thanks for the answer, in general, I saw this option before, but I did not know that it is also Glico 2 for lichess

2 Likes

My guess is: roughly equivalent to 10k OGS.

This is my attempt at an overall go-chess rank comparison table:

go rank (EGF) EGF rating USCF rating chess rank (USCF or FIDE)
strongest computer 3300 3500 strongest computer
strongest human 3000 2900 strongest human
9p 2940 2800 super GM
6p 2860 2700
3p 2780 2600 GM
7d/1p 2700 2500 IM
6d 2600 2400 FM
5d 2500 2300 CM
4d 2400 2200 master
3d 2300 2100 expert
2d 2200 2000
1d 2100 1900 class A
1k 2000 1800
2k 1900 1700 class B
4k 1700 1600
6k 1500 1500 class C
8k 1300 1400
10k 1100 1300 class D
12k 900 1200
15k 600 1100 class E
18k 300 1000
21k 0 900 class F
24k -300 800
27k -600 700 class G
30k -900 600
34k -1300 500 class H
38k -1700 400
42k -2100 300 class I, first game by adult?
46k -2500 200
50k -2900 100 class J, first game by child?

USCF is United States Chess Federation. AFAIK its ratings are similar to chess.com ratings
EGF is European Go Federation. EGF ratings are quite different to OGS ratings, but EGF ranks are similar to OGS ranks (at least around 1d).

6 Likes