History of the English pigs oppressing the Northern haggis-eating, caber-tossers (A Discussion)

England doesn’t own Scotland anymore :wink: and I wouldn’t call Scottish “English” either haha but fair enough point taken, I did forget that cough dialect.

The UK is a union – England never owned Scotland.

To say that England owns Scotland is like saying that one state of the USA owns one of the others.

Then again, I realised that this statement is deliberately de jure in nature. The political, economic, anmd regnal centre of the UK is London, the capital of England, so the statement that England “owns Scotland” does have a lot of de facto truth. An important difference, though, is that Scotland has retained its own legal and educational system.

The relationship of England to Wales is a lot more lopsided than that of England to Scotland.

I’m not talking about the UK, I thought England ruled over Scotland for a time before they regained their independence?

Was clearly talking in the past tense.

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I thought England ruled over Scotland for a time before they regained their independence

I can’t recall that. What time period are you thinking?

I did find an arguable instance, the Protectorate of 1653–1659.

They also had a brilliant motto:

Pax quaeritur bello. – Peace is obtained through war.

However, we have to ask whether the Protectorate can be identified with England. I’m not sure that it can, any more than the United Kingdom.

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B4 brexit

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sometime a while before their monarchs converged (with king george?) IIRC but I don’t have a good mind for dates… I could be mistaken, but it was my impression from somewhere :man_shrugging:

sometime a while before their monarchs converged (with king george?)

The (First) Acts of Union were passed under the reign of Queen Anne, in 1707.

Anne reigned 1702–14, George I reigned 1714–27.

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I think we should spin the discussion off into its own thread once we’re done with it ^^


Very good.


Well now that you’ve split the thread I can add my silliness…

Screenshots/photos/oil paintings or it didn’t happen. :wink:


You may be thinking of William the Conqueror’s “harrying of the North”, but that was made against Northern England, not Scotland.

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Hmm, there was a regnal union between England and Scotland going back before the Civil War… but I think it would still be misleading to say that England owned Scotland.

Rather, England and Scotland just shared the same monarch. The UK shares a monarch with Canada and Australia (and the rest of the Commonwealth realms), but the UK doesn’t own those countries.

* anymore, they did before we gained independence…

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There is also this:

after 1130, parts of southern and eastern Scotland came under Anglo-Norman rule (the Scoto-Normans), in return for their support of David I’s conquest.

David I was the “Prince of the Cumbrians” and later “King of Scotland”, and the Anglo-Normans were “the medieval ruling class in England, composed mainly of a combination of ethnic Anglo-Saxons, Normans, Bretons, Flemings, Gascons and French”.

Does David I represent England? Are the Anglo-Normans identifiable with the English?

You see how the questions become ones of opinion.

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I was expecting a funny caption…



I felt that words weren’t really necessary, just a fictionalized William Wallace staring disapprovingly at this entire thread.

However, I was also hoping and happy to see that the blank template would inspire some memes.


All very topical though given elections coming up and Scottish independence being a key issue, if not the main issue.
There is a bit of a feeling in some circles that we are moving towards the end of the UK the way things are going.

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Well Scotland are very anti-brexit aren’t they?

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