How to record yourself playing in a tournament

Also, what about people who play on their phones/ tablets? For whatever reason, they don’t own a desktop as shown in the example video.

Or they have access to a PC in a library, where recording will be most probably prohibited.


I don’t really want to go down that slippery slope, but it’s really easy to cheat in a room big enough and with some assistance. So, it’s not full proof, really… I suggest checking games that seem suspicious anyway, a good player’s opinion will always mean more to me than a video.

An idea that someone in these forums had (I can’t remember exactly now, but someone else probably will) was to have players explain “too good” moves. I guess that would work better in tandem with some automated AI detection of… well, AI. I know there are some things being developed to that end, but those are above my level of understanding so I just mention them for the sake of the discussion.

Also, I don’t recall which one, but some organizer wanted to charge extra for checking suspicious games reported by players. I understand this on a surface level seems like a good repellent of over-reporting, but it truly is a deflection of the organizers’ responsibility to ensure and uphold a fair competition. I don’t think it was BGF, but if it were, I hope it’s not a practice that will be repeated.


I wonder if “peer-checking” could work for B, C and D level tournaments. Generally, the community can reach a good enough conclusion of “cheater/ maybe/ just a good day”. But that’s just me thinking how well has peer assessment worked elsewhere, so I’m not sure if and how it could work here.


Also, I don’t know if such thing exists, but maybe tournament organizers should share a list of known cheaters. Not available to the public, because naming and shaming is cruel, but if someone for example cheated in the Corona Cup, wouldn’t you, as an organizer, want to know beforehand, as soon as they ask to participate in your tournament? And gently tell them, say, they are banned for a year? I’m ambivalent about that, though, so someone may have a good reason not to.


One last thing about regulations, please allow me a personal anecdote on this uncharacteristically long post of mine:

I’ve worked extensively with public funding. When something out of the ordinary came up, for example a machine not included in the list, the auditor would ask a declaration that the machine is OK for funding, because such and such.
The next program, instead of critically checking, would just include that declaration as a prerequisite by default.
On and on, until we ended up with a bunch of useless declarations and rules over the years, that nobody can really tell why they are in place, but are now part of the procedure and can’t be undone without legislation.

What I’m trying to say, let’s not over complicate things and lose track of the goal, the goal is fairness.

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i am curious what is the normal practice when a player needs to leave their seat in the middle of the game. Should people take their recording devices with them if they go to the toilet or outside for a smoke, or just leave the phone recording empty seat for few minutes? Should they mention to the opponent that they’re taking few minute break? Should the audio be also included, even if that might or might not have some other family members talking about personal stuff?

I’m not talking about any specific tournament here, im just wondering about the general guidelines with those recordings

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I don’t think there are general guidelines. Some tournaments require audio on, others don’t.

Re: anti-cheating measures.

In some tournament, someone was disqualified based on the game record which showed a too high level of play. The person wasn’t required to provide a video (only dan players were required to do so) and didn’t have a video record so was considered guilty without possible discussion. Some people complained that the anti-cheating committee was too harsh.

Conversely, in another tournament, a person X was strongly suspected of cheating but wasn’t disqualified. After the incident, other people complained and said they wouldn’t participate in future tournaments in which X is registered (in other words the anti-cheating committee was too lenient). Person X was “kindly asked” by their federation to stop participating to online tournaments and wait until IRL tournaments take place.

So things are complicated… Requiring a video is not a bad solution but tutorials on the web page of the competition might be useful.

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If they are using a mobile device to play, they will have to set it up (on a desk or whatever) in such a way that they can record it as per the example video.

If someone isn’t able to do that, then I’m afraid they’re not going to be able to participate in events that require video recording. This may seem harsh - but it’s the reality of the situation I’m afraid.

I certainly agree that the video isn’t the only important evidence. For the EWGC Antti will look into any disputes and I’m also expecting that he will look at some random samples of games too. He will use AI as well as looking at the game records. Video is just another piece of evidence that can help him with his analysis.

None of this is an exact science that can proove 100% whether someone cheated or not - it’s all about getting the best possible level of confidence in the decisions that are made.

I really would like to see an example of this. A video example, like the one with the desktop.
(since last year I’ve asked more than one organizers to provide such an example, nobody responded, btw)

Or is Dell going to be a Go events sponsor going forward?..

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This could cause referees a headache, but would capture everything! :grin:

In this case there are 2 players, but I can easily imagine that with a single online player

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The camera was set about 50 cm higher than the desk, at an angle.

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So at the risk of going further off my own topic, would it be possible to support people who would not be able to participate due to these kind of hurdles?
For example, there are funds which pay for travel costs. Could there be some kind of equipment loan system, maybe organised through local clubs, for the purpose of tournament play. Or maybe rather locations which could be used. Some kind of network of venues where someone can participate (remotely) in a tournament. In this case maybe there could be an authorised “cheater-checker” supervising so as to avoid the need for recording at all.

I’m not sure I’m being clear and maybe should have another thread on this but hopefully it makes some sort of sense.

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To me it is !

I was recently reading the rules for an online tournament on IGS and was asthonished they ask players to play home only (!), don’t be in a go club or a Internet cafe. …

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That could put too much burden on the organizing team. Except maybe in some cases like international team competitions where the team captain of each country is required to register all participants of his country and to take care of organizing their proctoring.

I was thinking more about UK tourneys where people were in the habit of traveling some distance to play three games. There could be says schools or universities with clubs where members word be participating in a tournament remotely but could do so from their local school or uni with less travel costs and without the recording business.

And then maybe other clubs might be able to offer similar facilities to their members. It would be a significant perk of membership if you ask me. Otherwise it’s hard to see the need to pay to join a Go club in a lot of cases.

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Yes this is probably feasible for small or medium tournaments inside a given country.

Well and honestly if international participants wanted to join they could record themselves. It’s not harder or more expensive than international travel was even BC (before covid).

In some ways I miss the times before we got AI.

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Before AI cheating was certainly possible with player substitution.

My point of view is that asking people to record themselves at home should be illegal. In fact depending on the country, and your interpretation of European laws, it’s probably illegal already. French schools an universities got wrecked for asking the same thing.

I’m not confortable to share a video of myself AND my boyfriend at home.

That why I would NOT participate to EWGC.

Btw, I have two screen on my computer, if I want to record myself “properly”, the webcam has to see through the wall.

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do you have a reference for this statement?

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I mean, that’s the choice, isn’t it? If you’re uncomfortable with the rules of the event, you’re free to decide not to participate in the event. It absolutely should not be illegal for a private event to adopt whatever nondiscriminatory practices they so choose, especially when there’s a demonstrable vested interest in such a policy.

You typically also must consent to being photographed and recorded at most large in-person events as well. Being in your own home doesn’t typically change the legal status of such a recording so long as you’re aware of and consenting to it, which if you’re recording yourself, you would be by definition.

I’d be grateful if a mod could move this over to the other thread about this subject

My thread was supposed to be about the practicalities of recording oneself as we already had a lot of discussions on the rights and wrongs.

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One more datapoint, in terms of what needs be seen.

The camera must clearly capture:

  • face: only medical electronic devices are allowed
  • hands: must be visible on screen at all times
  • computer screen: the game and the video call are the only applications open
  • Players cannot communicate with anyone during games unless in emergencies. If you notice any suspicious activity, please immediately report to the TD by private message or the “raise hand” feature.

And it’s not video, it’s zoom call :\

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