If kgs was made first

Why is ogs so much fancier?

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Because they stopped developing KGS a decade ago?


Do they not want to attract more people?

I don’t think they care much

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I believe it’s a little more complicated … like, William “Bill” M. Shubert (aka “wms”) had created all of it alone, and AFAIK at some point it was simply too much for him alone, and he probably found it quite difficult to let go of it enough to take other people in. I can, to some point, understand this.

And when he then passed it over to the American Go Foundation, the code base must have been HUGE, and perhaps not too well commented, so anyone who’d want to continue development would have to go through decades of code …


That’s the kind of info I was looking for. But I can’t find that kind of info though any wiki page or anything.

Sensei’s Library does have a little bit but, sadly, not much on the history:

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Because newer software looks fancier than older software.


KGS is still evolving a bit. The resolution of the graphics improved and AI review was introduced about 1 year ago. It’s less fancy than OGS but still useful because it works even with a slow internet connection. A few years ago my internet connection didn’t work well and OGS was completely unusable, but I was still able to play on KGS.


There is a difference from where they started. KGS was used by live games players, and OGS correspondance players.
KGS was first made and OGS later. KGS used a java client which seemed to be more efficient as a website (but that was not a concern for correspondance games).
Then wms got less time or interest in developing while OGS is trying to enlarge its audience to live and even blitz and offering some new options integrated.

For some players, kgs is providing enough to play and has his own community to play with. New players may be more attracted by the fancier OGS.
Well a kind of short resume.


Often you just need to rewrite everything from scratch. Member how it all was back in the day?


This is a cautionary tale that OGS is no stranger to.

Back in the day, the old OGS (correspondence-only) server was overseen by only one person (Damien a.k.a dmg) and it was getting close to a state of disrepair. I think that was one of the factors that played a role in the decision to merge with Nova.

Even earlier still, the server was first created by only two people: topazg (Graham) and Arathalion (I don’t know his real name) and, as far as I can remember, never had more than one or two developers working on its code at any given time.

I do hope that the current OGS does not also succumb to over reliance on a single developer, but it is something I still worry might happen sometime in the future.


Well … yeah:

Maybe we should crowdfund for paying a brigade of bodyguards for @anoek :sunglasses:

I’m sure though that he, knowing about all such things, has some precautions, and, hopefully, comments his code thoroughly. (You do that, right, @anoek? :sweat_smile:)

Also, the front end is Open Source, so that’s quite something already.

(BTW, this reminds me of that German macOS mailing list that I maintain … I guess I should take some precautions also as I am old enough to legitimately drop dead any moment.)


Perhaps cheaper to raise the “Bus factor”? @GreenAsJade how does your rate compare to bodyguard brigades?


We are actively working on The Bus Factor.

There are now two developers who can and have built large features in the back end (me and anoek), and a third with access who helps (benjito) .

Rates are very amenable to encouragement from crowdfunding :smiley:


Thanks, @GreenAsJade, this is so good to know!

And, everyone, please keep clear of buses, except for getting in or out when they stop.

Literal buses (or general mortality risks) are usually not the biggest threats to software projects with small dev teams. However, the “amazing job offer that can’t be refused” risk is quite worrisome. Bigger team is better!


Indeed! Still, I’ll take special care not to step in front of buses if @GreenAsJade and @anoek are around.


Oh, you mean the Kaya Factor?


You mean that site where Nyan Cat

ran over the screen when you mentioned another Go server? :smiley:

Well, that was fun … so long ago it almost ain’t true anymore.
I had donated a little bit also … then it broke, and I was heartbroken.
And then I discovered nova.gs, which later merged with the old OGS and became the new OGS, and I immediately fell in love again :slight_smile: