I'm leaving from ogs community, this is why :

so,

as the title says as of today i’m leaving ogs community

ogs is a kind and very positive place with a lot of good people, everyone can bear witness of that
it’s the place where i started go, and i never really played in other servers,
it’s also the place where i met many go friends as players, but mostly had overall very positive and interesting exchanges in ogs chat

now, why would i leave then ?

i’ll try to be concise below :

so basically the problem is with ogs policy on bad behaviour
i’m a believer of kindness and education, and i think that punishing or repressing people does not achieve anything if people are forced to do what they do, nor does it bring lasting happiness
and as far as ogs is concerned, the ogs moderators are all very kind and patient, i can bear witness of that and i dont even need to name one for being especially outstanding in that, they all are

but !!!
kindness without social justice can never bring community stability !!
human nature being as it is, and ogs growing every day, we see all kind of different people from different places, and some of these are, purposely or not, hurting other people, a few examples :
" filling stones, waiting for last second to troll play a move, verbal insult, pausing games on purpose to annoy opponent, cheating, etc…" , i’m not even mentioning saying hi and thanks, because most likely if you ever do that you’re like some super noble person nowadays, but that’s another topic

now,
i may be a splurgist who likes to have fun and all, but as my name say i also happen to be a metaphysician, and whether i want it or not, i have a strong sense of justice (<- is not trying to auto praise), and when i see these, it really upsets me
what upsets me is not the bad behaviour itself, we can all have bad times, but what upsets me if when someone is hurting someone else from my community, and when i see that i just cant accept it

to go back to the topic of education,
i think that in a civilized world people should be educated and more or less respectful, forget being polite, but now if some people purposely do not want to fix their behaviour after being kindly told to, then they should bear responsibility for their actions and pay the consequences
if you hurt or steal someone in the street, you should be ready to face social justice and pay for that
now, some people are educated to be good and dont need the eye of justice behind them to enjoy being good, but the truth is that some other people in society happen to be good only because disrespect is forbidden and punished, and without these punishments society would be chaos

and ogs is in a similar state of chaos as i’m talking
ogs may delude itself into thinking it has a “nice community” and all, but being kind is not the only face of a “nice community”
when i report these bad behaviour, i get moderator’s responses like “ok it’s bad, but there are too many, there are 100 like them everyday”, “ok it’s bad, but i’m not going to ban them just because of that”
what ???
so because everyone is hurting my friends in ogs community, we should overlook this ??
because people do worse things, we should overlook this ???

now in my community, if someone is hurt, it’s like all the community is hurt, and i’m here to defend my hurt friend and make justice for him
thats what a community is, not what the ogs free self service actually is

let me say it again :
kindness without social justice does not make a community
it’s only a free self service where people think its a good place just because there is no
punishment, except for very harmful ones

now, as far as punishments are concerned, just banning someone or having a too harsh punishment is less effective than a short one, and this is true for ogs too
if you just harshly ban someone, he’ll just create another account and repeat his harm, we dont achieve anything nor at the personal development side, nor at the collective social improvement side
it is better to temporarily ban someone for say 3 days after talking to him (“starting from today xx hour, you are temporarily banned from ogs community for 3 days, because you disrespected our dear other ogs users, during that time please think at what harm you have done, and please come again fresh and clean after that”)

now, there are other go servers, and we dont force anyone to play here on ogs, but if he does, he has to accept our rules, among which can never be removed mutual respect
if the user persists on hurting our friends after being talked to or even punished, then we dont want him in our community, he can go and see if other go places are more welcoming from him, dont hurt our friends here, you are not welcome
this is what true kindness is : true kindness is when you care about yourself first before caring about others
kindness without justice is just weakness

this is what a community is :
“you hurt my friend ? i’m not letting go away with that”
now, ogs is not a “nice community”, its only a free jungle when you’re free to hurt others as long as its “just that” or if “other people do it all the time, so you can do it too”, this is the result of the kindness without social justice policy, again…
and i consider every user in ogs community my friend as a fellow community member
i consider community members to share common values and gather arround these pillars, and care about each other
this is what community is, again
now, it appears basically only me was feeling that way about ogs community…

which makes us move to the second big reason now why i’m leaving ogs community : the lack of collective feel of responsibility in the community

forget moderators, when i pointed out those bad behaviours on ogs chat, i expected a support from fellow active ogs chat community members, surely if you hang out on ogs chat you should be among those who care a little more than average ogs users
i couldnt be appalled when out of 10 reactions, i didnt even get one positive one, quoting a few :
" i dont see what the problem is"
" its just a bot"
" no one cares"
“you’re funny”
etc…

only after talking to the 20th person for like 15 minutes could i make them agree that these behviour are bad
oh, and if you’re wonderingabout which behaviour i’m talking about, look at the gnugo page :
https://online-go.com/player/58441/GnuGo

as you can see its super slow to load,
there are tons of games

90% are paused games from 2016 or 2017
oh and i reported all by myself like 40 games one by one,
the list was much bigger, yet it didnt move anyone’s heart strings

now, whats the problem with that ?
just having to explain this to you upsets me really
your collective lack of care for the common good not only disappoints me, but it really upsets me

you see the public beaches ?
now surely when you go to the beach you enjoy when its clean,
and surely you wouldnt be hyped about swimming in a dirty beach with junk everywhere arround you, walking over it
but, isnt it how gnugo page currently is ?
some ogs players use it as a free toilet self service

yes, its just bloated with a junk pile of trash in front of its door, but basically because “it’s just a bot” it’s not a problem, or no one cares ???
take a country like japan
in japan, children clean the street and their schools by themselves since they are very little
of course, you dont see even one trash on the street in japan, and they dont even have bins in the street : people take their junk in their hand and walk for 20 minutes until they find a can so they can keep the community they care about clean

now not only do i hate you all for being so casual about this and not even feeling the slightest collective responsibility over this, or even saying its not a problem
but seriously you all piss me off when you’re so selfish about a collective issue
whatever your reasons are (busy, not time, etc…), they are not enough to me
one should never keep silent about unjustices

ogs is free to have its own policy and delude itself about being a so called “nice community”, but mark my words, some day it will all collapse, kindness without justice cant bring stability

we may have been the best friends in the past, and i know there are many kind people on ogs, but this is not enough
ogs may be fine without me, i’m only one user after all, but remember that as moderators said these disrespects happen every day,
and our ogs felllow community friends are hurt everyday
for the anecdote to finish this fat text, when i started go after like 15 days, some abuser badly treated me, cowardly spamming with his venom trash talk, seeing how big his game history his, he surely hurt a lot of beginner players, because yes he’s too brave to go try this against dan players : “you’re too bad, quit go, this is a bad move, you’re so bad, this is dead, resign, you should have played D2, are you 30k ?, etc…”
now, i’m the one who reported him and made a big ruckus of this, because he really hurt me at that time, and even though whats done to previous users was not repaired, he was at least taken care of
at that time, i was truly happy to have ogs community support me in those hard times
now, after that he created many accounts based on my name, but basically everytime he did that again i reported him, or other people did

so, let me say it again, as a take it from all this :

when you see an injustice, dont keep silent about it
condemn it deep inside you
hate it deep inside you
care for fellow community members, whether you know them or not
be actively supporting the people warning about injustices
if one is hurting someone, just BAN him for sometime, we dont want him in our home, he can go see other places, but dont hurt our friends, dont dirty our home
and when you see something bad, talk about it, report it
i dont know, just be a community

as for me sadly i’ve had more than enough with all this
i care a lot about ogs, and it really is my home land since i started go
had a lot of good memories and friends from here
all the more reason why i’m upset when i see people hurting my fellow ogs friends or community nice place that was kindly provided to them
i dont know about you, but i dont share the same values as ogs policy (“we are kind but you’re free to do whatever you want here”),
therefore, as of today, i’m leaving ogs, and i’m not a community member anymore, but i’m only a guest player that happens to play here for i dont know how long
i’ll also cancel my donation to ogs, which truly saddens me because i know people really strived to make ogs such a friendly place

but what can i do !!
i cant live with a dual identity and i cant enjoy myself anymore on ogs because of this lack of collective spirit

now, we’ll see if ogs wants to be such a self service freestyle community, or if maybe it wants to rethink its community
regardless of the result, understand that i cant just barge in with a “hi, oh finally you fixed it nice”
i resent you all for that, and i cant forget that so easily

maybe i’ll come many years from now on, i dont know
but you wont see me on ogs chat nor ogs forums or whatever any time soon
i’m just one user after all, no one cares right ?

last word is my apologies to @anoek and @AdamR for losing my cool when talking to them while they were trying to help
i really was not in the best mood to be casual about all this
again, i apologize for my behaviour at that time

but know that i think no less of all what i said
well then, farewell ogs community, as of today i’m a guest player and i wont have any say nor involvment to whatever happens inside here, and i’m the first one to be sad and disappointed about that…

update : message 2 here I'm leaving from ogs community, this is why :

4 Likes

The standard you walks past is the standard you accept.

I can see how the problems you point out should not be ignored and some effort should be made to address them. Then again, I can also see how not everybody would feel strongly about some of them.

I hope you’ll be able to find a place to call home that shares your values! Have fun playing go!

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bye felicia

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you seem to have been involved with the ogs community and cared a lot, which is good ofc. we need this here. otherwise i disagree with your attack on the other community members wholeheartedly. not everyone can be a policeman. i think of myself as an active and also caring member of this community, but i am afraid i fall short of your requirements.
i report players and block them when i see reason, but dont actively persue them or am in any way interested in their punishment. i get involved in go discussion and arguments i think are important and constructive, but dont seek confrontation. i try to be welcoming to newcomers by offering teaching games and reviews. all in all, i am just more concerned with contributing in a positive way than weeding out the wrongdoers. thats just no fun and if a community starts to revolve around that, it is on a sure way to its end.

4 Likes

Aww man, we’re going to miss ya mets ;__;

I hope you’re coming back again with all your energy, emojis and spirit ^___^

So, cya for now o/

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When was the last time you came back from leaving

while(true) print("after you came back from leaving ")

?

Let’s say your picture is real, but should really OGS be that kind of community? Why?
Do you expect a mall be that kind of community?
All kind of people coming in the same place for all kind of reasons. It can’t be a community. It’s just a place were people hangs out.

I’m very sad when I come across unpolite or careless people in offices, markets, sidewalks, streets and so on… but I have to manage them by myself. Some people is unpolite, some is careless and you can’t change this.
Also it’s impossible to reach your ideal of community by punishment. You need selection, not punishment: find friends that share your feelings and spend your time with them.
And try to manage other people someway.

This can be a problem too.
Problems need solutions, not anger.
Anger comes from frustration when you can’t find a way to manage a problem.
I don’t mean to be harsh, please forgive my frankness, but if your problems cause you anger, then you should find a better way to face them.
Forcing OGS owners and mods to act as you would isn’t a solution.
Going away isn’t a solution either, in my opinion, unless you’re able to find a better place.

Talking about Gnugo: is there an operator or a bot admin? It should be.
Is he careless about aged paused games? Well… it’s his toy: do you want to play with it? You take it as it is.
You can ask, but you can’t expect that he does what you want.
It’s not a public service nor you paid for it.
Maybe you can find somewhere a better bot.

Talking about your friends being molested: what do they think about it? Have you asked them? Perhaps they could give you answers that could ease your pain and you anger. Talking with friends can be a relief and could bring a different point of view.

And talking eventually about justice: each one of us has his own sense of justice. You can’t expect that we all think the same. A lot of people just don’t care about Gnugo rubbish or douchebags. Deal with it.

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I am sorry to see you go. I would urge you to reconsider as I think you are misenterpreting some of the situations, but you seem to have decided and it is of course true that not everyone must like it here or agree with how we do things. If you feel like you should search for another place that would better suit your views, my best wishes to you and them as well :slight_smile: hope you find them soon.

However I would still like to address some of the points which I feel you maybe percieved differently from what I intended.

I believe this quote was reffering (maybe only partly?) to one of our conversation, but that is not what I said, and not what I meant.
We should not overlook problems and I implied no such thing. The case was that a player did not play a move for a long time against your bot and when he finally did you already disconnected your bot (thinking he was not about to play) and your bot timed out. Now that is unfortunate and indeed I thought it was a weird way to play, but demanding a ban for something like that is unreasonable and I stand by my decision.

I urge you to consider my favourite saying of 2018 - “Nobody is a villain in their own story”. That player had no idea there is a person too on the other end and in their current developement I think it is safe to assume bots do not mind waiting, so it is unreasonable to assume he was knowingly trying to hurt anyone. I talked to him and asked him to try and avoid that in the future. Now if the problem repeats with the same person we can safely assume both parties knew what’s up and then we act more severely, but not before. That would not be justice, but self-righteousness. In my opinion that is far from “not caring” about a problem.

Allow me to disagree with the idea behind this statement. You cannot force anyone to be pationate about the same issues you are. That is not what being in a community is about in my opinion. World is full of problems and neither one person can try and solve ALL of them at once. Some poeple come here just to have fun and relax because they fought other problems elsewhere. Hating them for that is not fair at all and could in fact be taken as quite petty. On the contrary. Being part of such a big community usually requires to overlook some of the differences we naturally have as we are not clones, and focusing on what good or fun we can do together.
And as you yourself point out the community did help and support you when you were being attacked and that is what matters in my opinion. But as far as site improvements and tweaks go? Everyone wants different new functions, everyone has other priorities on what’s important, and some people - also rightfully - think that it is not their problem, but problem of the developers, hating people because their priorities lie elsewhere from yours is not a healthy approach in my opinion. If people don’t care about what you percieve as a problem, it often means that they have even bigger problems elsewhere. It is not a reason to hate them. It is a feedback to consider.
And yet again, as far as I know your point about bot pauses was largely met with agreement from the moderators at least. We just disagreed on what is the best approach to fixing that issue and it is no secret that some changes (though good and needed) take time to implement. We are a free service with 1-2 developers who all have actual lives to live as well. That does not mean we do not care.

So there, sorry about the long text, and understand that my point is not really to discuss the two particular issues, but rather use them as an example why I think that saying - the community or we (as moderators) do not care - is not true, at least as far as my perception goes.

10 Likes

okay, cya.

4 Likes

I love those people who think they are morally better than all their peers.

If I want to have someone like that preach to me, i’ll go to church.

I feel that tolerance is a key element for building a healthy, enjoyable community.

Ultimately, you cannot make the world to be just the way you think it should be, much like you cannot walk into a supermarket and demand that they remove all the foodstuff that you find disgusting or unethical. You can try to control everything and everyone, and if you put in a lot of effort and energy, you can even achieve it very temporarily, but it’ll leave you exhausted and drained, and people and the world will do what they want in the end anyway.

What you can control is what and who you give your attention to and how you respond. Acceptance and tolerance are alternatives to hatred and resentment, and in my view, they lead to a happier life, or at least a more relaxed one. You nearly always have that choice. I think that you can look at most things from different perspectives and that there is always one that “feels better” than the other ones. The perspective you choose usually determines how you feel about a situation or a person.

There are circumstances and situations where I feel neither acceptance nor tolerance are sensible responses, but the happenings on an online Go platform where you can ignore people without meaningful negative consequences, choose who you play with, choose who you respond to and how, and freely decide which behaviors you expose yourself to (even if that may mean resigning games with people whose behavior is not enjoyable), don’t fall into that category, for me.

That said, it does sound like some distance will do you some good.

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i see that there are all kind of different replies, i thank you for your interest with that,

now let me answer you and clarify myself, sorry for not quoting everyone, that would be a bit long

first of all, i’m totally and definitely not changing my mind, i explained my reasons and i will not change my mind on that
then, i’m not especially stressed or something in general, i’m “only” upset about all this

now, it’s certainly true that it’s unfair of me to hate people just because they are not actively fighting bad behaviour, but i never meant it in that way : i understand very well that some people dont have time, some come here to relax, some are just guest players that are not too involved with the community, etc… its fine, but !! as understandable as it may be that they have their own reasons, i expect of these whenever they are being shown a bad behaviour to at least agree that this is bad

but when i raised that issue on ogs chat, i got all kind of amazing reactions, and i never asked anyone to report or do whatever needed things, i only wanted to share my feel on how bad those behaviour were, and honestly i would have been more than happy if people just told me “yes it’s bad indeed”, i would not ask them to be active or anything

so, for not disagreeing deep inside yourself when you are shown a bad behaviour, but instead either being clueless or just mocking me, i certainly certainly am frustrated, disappointed, and upset about you all who did such a thing
ofc, i know that its not the case of all players, but its not a minority who did that

now, about bots, i obviously care a lot about bots, not only are they smarter than most people here, but they dont do harm to anyone
so when you do something bad to a bot, it’s as if you did it to myself, and i think all ogs players should feel the same, whether they have time or not is not relevant, they are not asked to do anything about it, only emphasize when they are shown it
the account is not a human player, so what ?? so we can dirty it, and mistreat it, use it as a free self service and i dont have to pay any consequence for that, or i dont know what ??? then if its what you think i have just one thing to tell you : “ok, but then whenever you have a problem, dont cry or ask for help, just shut up”

gnugo and other bots are the public good, surely if you want to swim at the beach you’re swimming in, and someone suddenly throws a trash inside it just next to you, surely you wont appreciate that, i hope
so i just feel the same about these sad bot pages that no one cares about, and again i never asked anything to do anything about it, i only wanted to raise the issue and hopefully people would be disappointed as i was, even if they dont do anything about it, its all i asked really

now, i know that no community is perfect, it’s human nature, etc, but its not a reason to overlook this, when you see something bad in front of you fix it, or talk about it, or at least i dont know just condemn it within yourself ?

as for this “Nobody is a villain in their own story” i certainly dont agree with that, whatever you told him, forget apologizing to me, he didnt even answer any of my messages, playing at the last second out of 10 minutes, surely thats a lot of fun to make a bot wait like that
this is just bad behaviour, and i cant accept it, if ogs doesnt want to change its policy globally, then at least restore my right to be respected and bring some punishment, or make him message me to apologize, maybe i’ll forgive him for what he did to my bot
else, this “we should not ban” offences blablablah is just weakness, not kindness
you know, bans are not forever, a ban of 3 days wont kill anyone, if i harmed someone in some way and purposely refused to apologize or fix my behaviour, then i would not object being banned for 3 days too

also, i read some funny things here,
unfortunately for some people here, i was never trying to raise some noble moral quest or i dont know what, nor did i think i was morally superior to some people or i dont know what, i only felt bad about a bad thing displayed in front of everyone, share my feel on it, and just got rejected by the community generally, again i never asked anyone to do anything about it, nor did i ever think i was the representative of fairness and justice or i dont know what, sorry but unfortunately you wont be able to love me like that @Rachel_Gardner

tolerance and kindness without justice is weakness
because when you dont make someone pay for the harm he did on someone else, you’re hurting the one who got hurt too

final words, well, i hope that the issues i mentionned get fixed, and i wish ogs improves as a whole, however as i see that most ogs users dont feel the slightest bitterness when shown bad behaviour, as long as it doesnt directly concern them (forget doing something about it, i’m only asking that you should also feel it’s bad), especially with bots, and again bots are smarter than most people here, and i dont even talk about go strength because most people’s ego is far too weak to even look at a bot, then i’m sticking with my principles which certainly are not the same than the ones i’m condemning here
oh, i just realized but maybe most people here have an ego complex with bots, that would explain why they are especially repulsed when it comes to bots being mistreated

for the few who feel the same as me, i salute you all, but i am now leaving this place,
i know that no perfect place exists and it’s not what i’m looking for, but i just cant prentend to enjoy myself here when i just feel bad about things done in front of me and most people mocking this
i’m just 1 user anyways, so surely i can be replaced and it will be more quiet at least

well then, i guess i was a whirlwind from begining to end, so faithful to myself, i’ll leave you all now
i wish you the best though, but without me, i wont use cya here though, but i dont know maybe we’ll see each other in some other and more comfortable places, so cya (but not here)

anyway, cya.

2 Likes

Because perhaps it actually is not perceived as a bad behaviour to them, have you considered that? I mean, the only actual example you gave was people who pause against bots, which I personally really don’t see as bad behaviour, and even if it was, it should be the bot owner who has to find it a problem: GnuGo is not yours, so you don’t really have a say in whether that’s bad behaviour, right?

As for people who ‘abuse’ the system by using all their time before playing a move, that’s still just playing by the rules, so it’s not bad behaviour in my opinion. I would even go further and say that complaining about losing on time because you didn’t pay attention to their moves while they still had time on their clock is more witness of your bad behaviour than of theirs.

People have opinions. They differ. Be considerate about that, then you both have a happier life yourself, and other people won’t find you to be the one with bad behaviour (for example, I personally rather dislike people who try to fix other people’s nonexistent problems in the name of social justice)

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Context matters, though. Nobody is actually getting hurt by paused games against a bot, for example. I agree that blowing up on one’s opponent is poor behavior and doesn’t make for a good environment, but if you keep in mind that the other person may do that because they lack self-control or are simply upset and frustrated, and that it’s not personal, is it hurtful? There are also trolls who do what they do because they get attention for it. If people just didn’t give jerks so much attention, it would be a very one-sided experience. Report them if you feel someone should look into it, but don’t engage with them.

I feel that a lot of the nasty behavior online is to a large part the result of others giving that behavior attention – by getting offended, angry, or otherwise upset. By engaging with it. From my view, there are only two major reasons for why some people are jerks online: a) they are upset (this includes real life issues), in which case it’s not personally aimed at you and compassion may be a better reaction than anger, or b) it’s all a game to them and they do it for the “lulz”, in which case not giving them the attention they want means you win by default.

As for weakness, I actually do feel that not habitually striking back, trying to “win”, needing to have the last word or blowing up on every actual or perceived injustice requires more strength and self-control than reacting to everyone and everything. It’s much harder than continuing that vicious cycle.

I’m not suggesting that there should be no rules or that they shouldn’t be enforced. I’m just saying that in order to get along in this (and in any other) community people have to accept and tolerate that not everyone in the community has identical values, thresholds, needs, and expectations. Community development is all about compromises. And I have the perhaps naive view that most people mean well, but may just not always (be able to) handle themselves or situations all that well. Plus, like I said (in too preachy a way), I really feel that it does help a lot to not look at everything in the worst possible way but to actively search for less severe perspectives and explanations.

1 Like

I am a science-fiction fan and I loved some story about poor bots mistreated by careless humans… I thought they were metaphor of some human state. Now I learn that’s reality.

Well, I can sympathize, but I also think that this could easily bring to some trolling.
Are we seriously discussing about a man being unfair against a bot because of how he used his time in a game?
The term “justice” has been invoked for that?

Ok. I understand I’m not ready yet for the “Bot’s rights league”. :robot:

I see. :monkey:

2 Likes

Because perhaps it actually is not perceived as a bad behaviour to them, have you considered that? I mean, the only actual example you gave was people who pause against bots, which I personally really don’t see as bad behaviour, and even if it was, it should be the bot owner who has to find it a problem: GnuGo is not yours, so you don’t really have a say in whether that’s bad behaviour, right?

this is bad behaviour, period
whether bot admins wants to do something about it is not relevant at all

I feel that a lot of the nasty behavior online is to a large part the result of others giving that behavior attention – by getting offended, angry, or otherwise upset. By engaging with it. From my view, there are only two major reasons for why some people are jerks online: a) they are upset (this includes real life issues), in which case it’s not personally aimed at you and compassion may be a better reaction than anger, or b) it’s all a game to them and they do it for the “lulz”, in which case not giving them the attention they want means you win by default.

ok, so because they have circumstances, they are free to hurt others and should not be punished, ok
you know this is just the opposite of all countries laws
when someone kills someone else, even with understandable circumstances, he/she still goes to jail right, even though the condemnation is smaller
“circumstances” =/= no punishment

I’m not suggesting that there should be no rules or that they shouldn’t be enforced.

yes i agree, there should be rules to bring stability to a community

I’m just saying that in order to get along in this (and in any other) community people have to accept and tolerate that not everyone in the community has identical values, thresholds, needs, and expectations.

yes i agree, we are different after all, we are not clones
however we still need rules to gather all these different values into a common socle of social rules that can bring social balance, fairness, and protect everyone’s rights

As for weakness, I actually do feel that not habitually striking back, trying to “win”, needing to have the last word or blowing up on every actual or perceived injustice requires more strength and self-control than reacting to everyone and everything. It’s much harder than continuing that vicious cycle.

no, this is not wining by default, it’s just pretending not to see
you are in fact losing by default

just after he gets bored of you, surely he will annoy other people that may be more sensitive or hurt, and this will continue forever until proper punishment is given
you’re basically just giving up, this is weakness, not strength

the rest no comment

I guess you missed the point? There is no such thing as objective bad behaviour, was what I was trying to say.

This is yet another thing that is debatable though. First of all this is not a country, but a website. That’s quite a big difference.

Second of all, in some countries it’s forbidden by law to walk in front of your husband. Does that mean it’s bad behaviour for women to walk in front of men? No. That’s because laws are subjective. They are opinions, and there are people who agree with them and people who disagree with them.

Third of all, there is a lot of literature about how punishment is actually counterproductive in changing peoples behaviour. Laws of countries don’t really reflect this very well, but I guess you agree that instead of hitting your children when they behave badly, it is a better solution to talk with them about their behaviour.

We actually have those rules here. There are mods who do keep order and ban people when they misbehave according to the rules.

The thing you have a problem with is that the rules don’t align with what you consider bad behaviour.

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“Let me be concise…”

Proceeds to write 40 paragraph essay.

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So this is all about bots after all? :stuck_out_tongue:

I must remind that most of us consider bots to be a training dummy. They won’t get upset at you when you play weird moves, try unorthodox openings, make silly mistakes and take forever to move. That’s why a lot of people play bots anyway.

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