I don’t think greeting your opponent is necessary but OP is just voicing something many people complain about (although in a strange fashion).
Also, those public records… I checked them out and I find OP to be in the right there - seems his opponent was sandbagging and he deserved being rude to (since he timed out in multiple games at 95% after that game) - I hope that was not the reason OP was chatbanned and I hope his opponent was banned from playing games.
If someone sandbags you, you call them on it and YOU get banned for telling them what they deserve, that’s just sad.
If ogs moderators chatbanned pikestance merely on that public record, I think they owe him an apology.
I notice you were ‘in’ that chat so dont look unbiased to me. The language he used in that game was appalling and utterly deserves a chat ban. IF his opponent was sandbagging (and how would you know? it looks like an opinion) then the correct response is to report it to a mod and not get so nasty about it.
Having read that game log I am actually shocked people can actually react and talk that way in game. If that was continued then it would drive people away from the game.
Although probably not necessary, what if we add an option to disable the chat? That way if a user doesn’t wish to interact or is unable to do so because of chat bans etc, they can disable the chat in settings and their opponent can be shown something along the lines of “Opponent has disabled chat”. I’ll admit I haven’t thought this completely through, and that sort of feature may cause other problems. I’m not sure what those could be though. Just a thought.
In case you missed my initial response to this, I agree that it is rude to ignore your opponent but accept that there are cases where people are not able to reply. As for cases where people simply do not wish to reply for whatever reason, that is their choice. While I find it annoying, it isn’t something to go to war over. Also no ad hominem there, your behavior seems rather inconsistent with someone who cares so much about manners.
Sandbagging or not, timeouts or not, OP doesn’t have a right to verbally abuse his opponent. There’s a difference between calling someone out and verbal abuse. Why not just report it to a mod and move on?
I am unbiased - I don’t know either of the players, I just happened to be there and as you saw I defended the opponent but seeing how they threw at least 2 games at 95% winrate afterwards, I see I was in the wrong and his opponent was a sandbagger after all. I do not like sandbaggers and I don’t think someone should be banned for arguing with one, even if it was a little out of line. Sure, he could have reported it and moved on but still chatbanning him for reacting to a sandbagger seems unjust to me.
Here’s a thing. I re-reviewed the posts that I cleaned up, and I realised that I had silenced a voice that was agreeing with the OP, which was not appropriate.
As I said prior, the reason this thread is not locked is to make sure we have the opinions on the table.
So I have reversed that.
There is a critical point in the recent discussion to emphasise:
This is correct.
There are no circumstances under which it is OK to abuse your opponent. None at all.
“Oh he’s a sandbagger, so he deserved the abuse” << wrong.
The way I see it is this… If at some point you find yourself in a situation where an argument could well unfold. It’s best to get the mods involved, unless you are absolutely confident in your ability to handle the situation in a way that does not turn in to an abusive argument.
I have personally had OGS users want to start an argument with me in the past. By simply insulting the way I played. (I had a really bad game) but instead of arguing back and insulting… I was simply said thank you. And was kind. I know I have the ability to turn the conversation around. And as such if I feel that I can do that I will attempt it.
If however I see a person who isn’t dissuaded from their abusive language and so on, then it’s time to get the moderators involved.
Sandbagging though is an entirely different topic. And it’s something that I have talked with admins about before. Sandbagging is absolutely allowed. Not only do people like Dwyrin the twitch streamer use this as a teaching method, but so do many pro players on other servers use sandbagging as a means to play an enjoyable game, without being harassed.
Do I enjoy being sandbagged myself? Not really, but a game is a game. I don’t see it as a large enough issue. Airbagging on the other hand is another problem entirely, and should be avoided in my opinion.
But… sandbagging and airbagging are not things to become abusive over. If anyone has any legitimate concerns about a player doing either of these things… Then contact a moderator.
There is absolutely no reason that an OGS user should engage in negative behaviour. Even if someone is hurling abuse at you… That does not give you the right to do the same in return.
Actually, sandbagging is specifically not allowed.
Sandbagging means “actively manipulating your rank to deliberately misrepresent your skill”.
It is not always easy to prove (or even decide) if someone is doing this. If a person sets out to have a lower rank than their skill with determination, they can probably achieve it in a way that we can’t police.
However, we do attempt to prevent it where we can.
There is a conundrum about this that relates to unranked games. Unranked games are allowed.
Playing unranked is not manipulating your rank. It is simply playing go without affecting your rank.
It was agreed in another thread that Dwyrin is welcome to play unranked at OGS. However, he is not allowed to play at a skill level below his actual skill in ranked games (IE he can’t do “Basic Series” vidoes in ranked games).
When Dwyrin plays unranked here, his rank will not change. This means that it will not reflect his skill. Is that sandbagging? Conceptually possibly it is, but practically speaking, there is nothing we can do about that. Either you are allowed to play unranked, or you are not. If you are allowed to play unranked, then people can have accounts that do play unranked that will not reflect their skill.
If you want to play with people who’s rank reflects their skill, don’t play unranked games.
If you play unranked games, you can expect that the other person’s rank is not reflecting their skill. It seems obvious: they (like you) play unranked, so how could their rank reflect their skill?
If you suspect that someone is manipulating their rank deliberately, please report it.
If you simply feel that someone’s skill is not reflected by their rank, but have no evidence that they are manipulating their rank, please at least do a little homework before reporting them as a sandbagger.
There are legitimate reasons why someone of lower rank than you beat you, it doesn’t automatically mean they are sandbagging. A person who is on an improving trend is one such case: their rank will lag their skill.
Well… That was an important clarification. I remember having the short version of this conversation a while ago as I was reading. My bad for forgetting. And thank you for outlaying the technicalities of the sandbagging rules.
Rank manipulation should of course be illegal where the rules are concerned.
But playing unranked games on a weaker profile… Yeah, that’s absolutely fine I think.
Also good reference of the basics videos, I legit have a back to basic vid up on my computer right now actually.
But… Going back to the previous point of the conversation, if anyone finds themselves in a situation where they are playing a game, and they feel they are being sandbagged, in the illegal sense. Then absolutely contact a moderator, but as Eugene said, do homework first if at all possible. But never resort to being verbally violent.
The Topic of this thread is greeting your opponent and then subsequently thanking them for the game. Everything else in this thread is off-topic. I am shocked than an apparent admin of the site is continuously off-topic.
If you want to make your own topic then make your own thread and stop hijacking mine.
This thread has exploded with emotion, viewpoints, and opinions. Unless this thread’s purpose, at this point, is to have a place where people can vent their emotions, it seems to have served it’s purpose. Even if another 25 people show up over the weekend, are we really adding anything to the community or the content in this thread by allowing this negativity to continue?
The issue’s pro’s and con’s and viewpoints from both sides of the fence have been fully addressed. One of the things that I love about OGS is the kindness and welcoming feeling I get when I visit here. This thread could have been handled in a very different manner. The important point is to address the topic in a constructive manner. This is a perfect example of why I avoid numerous online venues.
I sincerely believe that this is harmful, not helpful. I can’t imagine somebody finds this later, gives the entire discussion a read, and walks away feeling particularly educated or well informed. It left me feeling dirty and with a negative emotional charge instead. I am respectfully casting my vote that it now be locked. Though I realize nobody is asking
