Impossible to detect sandbaggers/lower ranked people

While the statistics eg 2.5k ± 0.8 provide a relative means of confidence in someone’s rank, we lack simple information that would help avoid mismatches.

I started a thread around this previously due to the exact same frustration I still face: Pie Chart not too useful and relevant to rank

But again, just now, I was completely shut out by yglee who… presents as a 3k: 2.5k ± 0.8 yet has consistently beaten 3d,2d,1d…

To refresh the proposal I made previous:

What I believe is a more useful piece of information, is the strength of opponents that they beat. So what I am proposing is a pie or bar chart that groups the strength level they have beaten.

This way, I look at this chart, and I see that they have beaten 1d about 20% of the time, 1k about 50% of the time, 2k about 30% of time.

This gives a much clearer gauge on their strength and I believe a more useful chart.

Without this information at quick notice, the only way to determine someone’s true capability is to manually comb through pages of their games, which is unlikely to happen at the start of a game, and thus makes it easier for these people to slip through the system undetected.


We have mods with experience used to detect and take care of sandbaggers, including other “tools”. Biggest difficulty is lack of reports from victims. By collecting multiple occurences mods are the one with the most information too.
It’s like impossible to detect beforehand someone going to sandbag so i see what you suggest more for confirmation as prevention.

What is more important is finally to intervene as soon as possible (with reports to mods) more as let people scrutinize their opponent list of games.


I didn’t look in detail at his game history, but at least among the 9 most recent games against 2 dans, he won only 3 games, and 2 of these games were with handicap.
Among the 14 most recent games against 3 dans, he won only 2 games, and one of these games was by resignation at move 8 without reason.

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Yes, a big problem with the whole wins/losses against weaker/stronger players concept is that it doesn’t take handicap into account.


Your ingenious proposal would indeed help to identify a tiny minority of sandbaggers. It would also, I suspect, require a lot of work to implement, so undertaking that effort depends on a cost-benefit analysis.

Sadly, it would have no value in detecting the large majority of sandbaggers. Sandbaggers who know their business cannot be stopped. I’m not going to explain that further, as doing so would only help sandbaggers who do not know their business, or don’t care about being caught.

If people are determined to avoid sandbaggers, I suggest they play only people they know and trust.

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Great idea. All games should be re-ranked before going into the chart. So a win against 2d with 2h counts as a 0k win maybe?

Yeah, for sure this would be an obvious improvement - it could even be described as a “bug” that it doesn’t already.

I didn’t even think of it when I did those graphs.

(Because I had zero experience of ever playing handicap or seeing people do that, at that time! So it just wasn’t on my radar)

I don’t think it’s trivial to achieve though :crying_cat_face:


@GreenAsJade what technical obstacles exist? Asking as a fellow programmer


I’m not familiar with that code like @GreenAsJade is, but if you’re interested in exploring, I think these are the relevant directories:


The main technical limitation that leapt to my mind is recalling that those charts are implemented in fairly low level d3, so it’s a face-full to get started with :slight_smile:

If you can get over that hurdle, maybe it’s not too hard to simply subtract the handicap stones from the rank to fix the “stronger/weaker” comparison.


BlockquoteWe have mods with experience used to detect and take care of sandbaggers, including other “tools”.

I’ve some example where sandbaggers are not stopped by mods :slight_smile:

You mean you have some experience were people that you think are sandbaggers are not stopped by mods.

There are of course times when this is going to happen: maybe the mods are busy dealing with AI cheats or trolls.

But it’s also possible that just maybe all the (many) people who you think are sandbaggers aren’t all in fact sandbaggers…

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