Yet, for the same price, if you had contacted both le_4TC and yebellz and suggested waiting for Haze to be eliminated at the point that you still had three outside liberties, the part afterwards wouldn’t have gone any differently, right?
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Not really. I had no reason to want Haze eliminated.
There were two occasions that could have changed the outcome. One would have required a very precise guess (which didn’t happen). The other would have required to coerce another player with a false pretense. To deceive a deceiver would have been acceptable, but it is too much work.
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Why is Piggy helping yebellz get to first place…?
The endgame really starts to make less and less sense to me from the perspective of the game objective being to end with a position as high as possible… Leaving Haze alive made no sense for anybody but Haze, Leira removing liberties made no sense (but we now know Leira had a different objective), le_4TC suddenly deciding to capture Leira knowing that yebellz would get a strategically perfectly placed stone made no sense, Piggy not filling the border liberties makes no sense.
Only yebellz’ moves make sense to me.
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This hasn’t made sense to me for a while. Even filling in inside stones before them.
Haze moves make sense. They’re snaking into the joint territory, possibly giving themselves a chance for more total points. I’d want to be careful of the kosumi though, since yebellz and le_4tc both gain by cutting off the two stones.
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And, sorry to say so, this game has been incredibly boring to watch. 9 x 9 was definitely better.
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Yes, it only doesn’t make sense that Haze is still in the game. 
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Piggy has been teaming up with yebellz the entire game and they continue to do so. I believe they don’t want to turn against yebellz. If I recall correctly, Piggy even wrote in some kibitz post that they agreed to share first place with yebellz in a tie.
I hope yebellz will eventually break this agreement and try to overtake Piggy.
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We’ll need a live one with live commentary on a demo board 
Maybe something with a timer to make the diplomacy negotiations somewhat brief.
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I think a live variant would be fun, however, with the negotiations taking probably at least a couple of minutes, it might take several hours to complete a game.
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I agree, but I don’t think this is because it’s a 13x13 board. There hasn’t been a lot of discussion in the main thread, making it less entertaining perhaps.
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I think Haze and le_4TC are both single factions, and yebellz and Piggy have pretty clear communication.
Perhaps I could suggest converting this game to a faster pace, e.g. by taking an afternoon to play several rounds in a row.
Current range of possible area, assuming no suicide & captures and including necessary eye space:
| min | max | |
|---|---|---|
| Piggy | 45 | 48 |
| Haze | 32 | 38 |
| yebellz | 49 | 58 |
| le_4TC | 33 | 36 |
What we therefore can conclude:
- We have reached the point where yebellz is the undisputed winner, since they have already more area than any of the other players can ever obtain.
- Piggy has guaranteed second place, as neither Haze nor le_4TC can still make enough points to rival Piggy. Hence, it makes sense from this point onwards that Piggy does not fill the dame, since it does not improve nor worsen their position.
- Any move by either Piggy or yebellz is purely done to decide whether le_4TC or Haze gets third place.
- Assuming yebellz and Piggy cease playing, if Haze gets either H11 or J8, they will be guaranteed third place, le_4TC fourth place.
- A draw for third place is still possible, but it is more likely that Haze gets third place.
So, I’d say the game is pretty much over at this point.
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In fact, I might even go as far as to label yebellz and Piggy’s continuous attempts the last few moves to block le_4TC as mean (unless this is the result of a punishment / reward for previous diplomatic negotiations, but those aren’t mentioned in any kibitz logs so far).
Here’s a slightly interesting scenario: le_4TC may accept their loss, but attribute it completely to Piggy helping yebellz in denying the top area, and thus may commit suicide as a means of mutual destruction. It’s quite likely in that case that Haze manages to gain about 20 points (e.g. if Haze conquers le_4TC’s territory up to the 10th row) and actually get ahead of Piggy.
Even in this case it’s highly unlikely that Haze would win from yebellz.
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This is some 4d chess here. Or just regular Go.
I don’t understand why yebellz wants to annoy le_4TC.
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I don’t get it either. I’m also not sure why yebellz thinks they still need to secure their victory.
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From the latest report by yebellz it appears everyone, including us kibitzers, is on the same page.
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