Kibitz Garden ☕ for the Second Diplomatic Go Game

[martin3141]

@Vsotvep

Kibitz logs for Round 21

yebellz

My development in the top-left corner might appear aggressive to , however, it is all being done with cooperation and encouragement from them. They appear quite generous and I hope that it remains genuine.

Clearly, open hostilities have broken out between and .

has proposed a plan to and to work against and ultimately capture , hence, made that eye limiting move at N12.

However, I really don’t necessarily have a strong interest in seeing eliminated, since that would only feed points to and , which could worsen my own ranking.

Instead, I would like to see , , and reach a three-way stalemate where none of them can eliminate each other, and none can surpass me in points (in terms of stone scoring, of course). Of course, in such a stalemate, I would be keeping alive on account of shared eyes that we can form at G7, G9, and G11.

There is a very remote possibility that might allow me to get too close to them in score, which could allow me to take the lead by eventually clearing the stones of and occupying that space myself. However, I think should foresee that, and perhaps it would be anyways more likely that I might face a combined assault disrupting my ability to safely make eyes. I’ll prepare for the worst, while hoping for the best.

I think the most likely outcome for the final five players is this ranking:

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 

PiggyStardust

Hello!

In case anybody’s wondering (but yb has probably already explained everything) yb’s invasion at B10 is only supposed to look like an attack, since I offered him my stone in order to keep the other players (who have all become quite busy anyway) away, just in case they thought I needed some hindrance. This will, anyway, pay him back for his help at D2.

I hope Haze starts to play inside, an attack from le4tc could unbalance the established order. I might consider helping Haze this turn.

I’m thinking of asking Haze and yb to help me remove martin’s stones. This will help all three of us in limiting le4tc’s influence.

Because of this kibitz log from yebellz, I believe they are trying to achieve this stalemate where Leira, le_4TC and Haze_with_a_Z reach a stalemate on the right side. This explains why yebellz was interested in helping Haze make three eyes, in my opinion. To me it seems likely that developments on the right will come to a halt.

[Vsotvep]

Perhaps yebellz is waiting for le_4TC to be eliminated before capturing Leira and getting ahead of PiggyStardust?

[shinuito]

That’s a really clever plan. Stalemate until no-one else can benefit

[belabacsijolvan]

PiggyStardust will have to betray yebellz before both of le_4TC and haze die.

[Vsotvep]

Kibitz logs for Round 34

le_4TC

@le_4TC

For the Kibitz thread: I’m just waiting for yebellz and Piggy to finish their business for now. Then I’ll see if yebellz wants to capture Leira. It might be the case that I should try to force yebellz’s hand already now, but I’m not very good at the diplomacy stuff so I’ll just bide my time. Once the board is settled I can make a clearer proposal/threat towards yebellz. Like I mentioned earlier, if yebellz doesn’t cooperate to capture Leira before I’m eliminated, then I will suicide instead. That shouldn’t be desirable for yebellz. (but maybe I won’t even have to make such a threat, it looks like yebellz might need the extra points)

yebellz

@yebellz

Interesting moves from Green, Blue, and White. They all effectively passed last turn. Do Green and Blue expect help from Yellow to capture White? I certainly don’t plan to help capture White, and I don’t think it is quite in Yellow’s best interests either…

Here are my end game considerations. Let’s start with the basic facts

• Yellow controls 43 points of area
• Sky controls 36 points of area
• There are 6 dame points between Sky and Yellow
• The main group of Green (Teal) is 23 stones and only firmly controls 23 points of area, if we consider the points H12 and J12 to be unclear
• Blue controls 25 points of area
• White controls 29 points of area
• Sky and Yellow each have at least 5 eyes and hence are “immortal”
• White and Blue each have a maximum 3 eyes
• Green only has shared eyes produced by the dame at F12, G7, G9, K5, and tenuously H12

Analysis

As the game currently stands, if the no player has the bulk of their stones captured over the rest of the game, Yellow is in 1st, Sky is in 2nd, and White is in 3rd. Blue and Green are a bit uncertain, but it seems that Green would likely be able to edge ahead of Blue (assuming that Green remains uncaptured).

In theory, Green could possibly create an eye around H12, if first any other player played at H12, followed by Green playing at J12. If this were to happen, then White and Blue working together would not be able to capture Green without my help (since Green would have one eye on their own plus two shared eyes in the dame with me). Note that Green playing at E13 in an earlier round removed one of their shared eyes with me.

However, it does not seem that Blue is interested in capturing Green (at the moment) and instead wants to antagonize White. Blue can also help keep Green safe by not occupying the dame point at K5.

Ideally, I would want Blue, Green and White to all be eliminated by the growing stone threshold, but without the bulk of their stones being captured. If they all simply played pass every turn, that would be ideal for me. Since, after they are gone, I could then capture Green myself, and take enough points from that region to edge ahead of Yellow.

Another possibility is that Green is captured while White and Blue still remain alive. In this case, I could still possibly take the lead, if I can gain maybe at least seven points from that area, while keeping Blue and White from catching up to me.

However, perhaps Yellow might anticipate this and instead threaten to help capture White to prevent that? That would possibly still retain the lead for Yellow, provided that one of Green or Blue does not take too much of the spoils from the vacated White, but it does certainly increase the likelihood that I fall below second place.

[Gia]

Where are the fights, I was promised fights.

[Groin]

Fight in secret words…

[shinuito]

@le_4TC

Like I mentioned earlier, if yebellz doesn’t cooperate to capture Leira before I’m eliminated, then I will suicide instead. That shouldn’t be desirable for yebellz. (but maybe I won’t even have to make such a threat, it looks like yebellz might need the extra points)

I didn’t even think of this to try force yebellz hand. I’m still not thinking in Diplomacy mode so

[Groin]

Dame almost finished

[Vsotvep]

Kibitz logs for Round 35

Haze_with_a_Z

@Haze_with_a_Z

Sup yall ig. I don’t talk much in this but here I am. There isn’t much I can do atm in the game so I am kinda just waiting for stuff to happen.

So therefore, I am doing the pass! This is different than the orange pass though because I do plan on playing more, but I don’t have much to do atm. I am partially worried that if I do play, it will just lead me to my doom. No one else besides leira wants to kill white, so that prob won’t happen, so I am just gonna wait for something else to happen in the game. Something will happen eventually. My other goal is to actually live this time. If I lose, I still want to live. And not die.

[Vsotvep]

@Groin

Dame almost finished

I think I will remind the players next round that they may suggest an order of who places at which place, and if everyone agrees, we could forward the game to a point where one of the players would be eliminated (and onwards until the game is over), so we won’t have to wait over two weeks for the stone counter to catch up to the players.

[shinuito]

Given the ideas mentioned in here and the kibitz logs from the players…

Is Piggy playing inside their own territory at points like B1 this round and B7 earlier a mistake?

I guess I understand B7 back a few rounds when the two stones were in 4-Atari but I don’t know about B1 when there’s still two more dame at F3 and E7.

I know they have a lead but then with le_4tc idea to threaten to kill their own group or be helped to capture Leira, or the idea that Yebellz could wait out the game and then capture Leira I wasn’t sure how clear cut the lead would remain. (And actually maybe it’s not that much of a lead now. Without extra outside moves Piggy maxes out at 43 stones while keeping two eyes, while if yebellz can get maybe 37/38 and then some if Leira is captured.)

@Gia

Where are the fights, I was promised fights.

It’s less like an active fight and more like the end of of fight where someone’s in a stranglehold that they probably can’t get out of but they either have to wait for the bell to end the round or tap out.

Leira’s main group is now in 3-Atari so it could be captured by Haze yebellz and le_4tc, the three who would benefit and I presume they’ll go for it. It might be extremely hard for Piggy and Leira to collide every round for 10 rounds to stop Leira being captured and that would only eliminate haze at that point.

[Groin]

Yeah it’s all about the spinach cake soon.

[Vsotvep]

It’s going to happen differently, though. Leira appears to have completely accepted their loss, and is currently on a mission to fill up the gaps and be eliminated. Yebellz and le_4TC both would benefit from waiting until Haze is eliminated before capturing, but neither seems to have thought of that, and they’re both trying to close the shared eyes. Haze on the other hand, the only one of these four who doesn’t benefit from passive play, is passing.

Leira, yebellz and le_4TC should all agree to kill Leira only after Haze is eliminated: Leira would end up 4th instead of 5th, and yebellz and le_4TC have less trouble from Haze also trying to fill up the area.

In fact, I’m pretty sure that yebellz could force a win if Haze is eliminated before Leira is. The current count, assuming yebellz and le_4TC get G8 and J12 in:

Piggy	45
yebellz	40
le_4TC	30
Leira	25
Haze	25

Piggy can get 48 points at max, if they get F3 and E7 & E8. After Leira is captured, yebellz should play H7 or even H6. This way yebellz can make a guaranteed 7 or 8 points in the gap between Haze and yebellz that is now filled up by Leira. It won’t be a problem at all to make 2 or 3 points in the top part afterwards, meaning yebellz would end ahead of Piggy.

It’s not impossible that le_4TC would manage to make 13 points after the capture either, which would even give Piggy 3rd place.

[shinuito]

So much learn about possible strategies and it’s only the first game

[Vsotvep]

What’s also exciting, is if yebellz and Piggy end up both having 48 points (or, 46 stones + 2 eyes), the rest filled up by Haze and le_4TC, and Haze does not fill up the M3 / N3 eye before being eliminated. If this happens, it becomes a very different game: here both yebellz and Piggy can get one extra point in this eye, but the other could immediately capture it, and steal this extra point. Moreover, trying to block this would be committing suicide. It becomes a bit of a psychological rock paper scissors.

Perhaps le_4TC or Haze even leave open several of such gaps

[Vsotvep]

Kibitz log for round 42

yebellz

@yebellz

Although we have not discussed this, I think le_4TC and I both understand that it is our collective best interests to slow walk the elimination of Leira until Haze is first eliminated by the rising threshold (Haze has only 22 stones while the threshold is at 18 right now).

I think le_4TC views his chances of finishing higher than third as slim, but that there is more risk that he falls to fourth, since once Leira’s stones are removed, I will primarily be fighting in the area between me and le_4TC to make as many points as possible, which could give Haze free reign to potentially catch up to le_4TC.

Of course, I would also benefit from Haze being eliminated before we remove Leira’s stones, since then I would have uncontested control over the space between Haze and I.

It would take several more rounds of inaction before Haze is eliminated, however, perhaps Haze does not yet notice these implications? We would naturally like to speed things up, but then that might make such implications more apparent.

[Vsotvep]

I’m not sure I follow Piggy or le_4TC’s strategies. Looks like yebellz is going to win now, but with Haze still in the game, I see little chance for le_4TC to be able to overtake Piggy.

[Leira]

Finally.

@Vsotvep

Leira appears to have completely accepted their loss, and is currently on a mission to fill up the gaps and be eliminated […] Leira would end up 4th instead of 5th.

No, only first place counts as far as I am concerned. I’ll take the fulfillment of a minor objective as a net gain.