Komi needs correction on 9 x 9


#62

No difficulty to assist them (default settings) can be fun for them too
“O plz I prefer you start!” Or reverse.

If as discussed before they would lower it, then they can try it at their will.
So I find it more beginners friendly as anything else.


#63

Most of my games don’t end with 0.5 points, so komi is not a big concern.
And for beginners it is even less a concern.

To decide for a komi change of 1 point one would need hundreds of professional games.


#64

I do have and see counted games and it’s a bit more of a concern on 9x9 as 19x19 as this thread tends to prove it.

Maybe because of the reduced size, players feel more proximity with the komi.

A cake system would leave everyone happy: the OP with his %, the beginner and his mountain, the middle ones and the fanatics of the 7.5 (25?)… and all the others one I did forget sorry.

But first why do we have to fix an arbitrary komi at all?


#65

Has anyone noticed that komi got adjusted between OP (6.5 komi) and now (5.5 komi)?


#66

No. It has always been 5.5. (Not a 1984 reference.) It’s 6.5 on KGS.


#67

If we only had a negative / reduced komi as a handicap option this would all so simple ^^


#68

I sampled some 9x9 data from OGS:

All games are ranked, even (rank difference < 1 rank) games without handicap. Both players are required to have a stable rank (deviation < 120).
Games ended within 2017-09-01 and 2018-11-21. I omitted games ending by timeout.

rank number of games white stronger winrate for white
all 166732 57.2% 40.8%
<= 20k 12943 53.0% 43.9%
20k - 10k 80276 57.8% 40.9%
10k - 1d 64138 56.9% 40.7%
>= 1d 1096 54.9% 35.1%

About half of the games ended by resignation.

It’s not a mountain to climb up for black, but more for white. Win rates are strongly in favor for black, but the stronger player is more often white than black in my sample.

This is simply a discussion about feel.
If Komi needs a correction, it would need to be higher, not lower.


#69

For what it’s worth, this year on tvbaduk there was " 9줄바둑 5人5色" show with komi betting. They played only 6.5 or 5.5 komi, mostly 6.5.


#70

Not really. A two point difference just means flipping the color of one intersection.

With area scoring for example, a komi of 6.5 would give the same winner as a komi of 5.5. You would need to go to 7.5 to hope for a different result. Territory scoring is a little bit different as it depends on who plays last.


#71

Please explain how it could possibly be relevant to territory scoring who plays last.


#72

@smurph some rules (AGA for example) require white to play last, giving a stone to the opponent. In that case, it sometimes means a one point difference with Japanese rules, assuming same komi.


#73

I see. My statement was more specific than that. AGA is a ruleset, not a scoring method. Under territory scoring, who moves last is irrelevant.