Non-Japanese Loanwords used in English Go Discussions?

A theory could also be put forward that English (or Modern English, at least) by and large rejects monosyllabic loanwords, and since many Chinese words are monosyllabic that prevents them from easily entering the language.

That’s a more speculative point, though.

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I think a big part is difficulty of translation of a lot of certain words we borrowed.

Tigers mouth and one space jump are easy enough, but seki? Hane? Those are so uniquely Go terms I don’t think pure English translations do them justice.

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I’m surprised that no-one apparently mentioned the stone material yunzi, from Chinese 云子.

(Note that this is a bisyllabic word, which could be seen to support my idea.)

Also, the calque big pig’s snout for the J-group, derived from Chinese da zhu zui 大猪嘴 is also in some use (ofc, this is a calque and not a real loanword).

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Then there is the more pedantic question of what qualifies as a loanword.

Consider a few Latinate words often used in Go:

English Latin root
centre centrum
comment commentum
corner cornua
evaluation valere
extension extensio
group grupus
liberty libertas
position positio
review revideo
sequence sequentia

Ah, I see that Koba already discussed stages in the etymology of group and review.

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I’ve found that, over time, I’ve gradually been shifting some of my pronunciations to initial stress.

Over the years, I think I’ve shifted from tesuji to tesuji and from tsumego to tsumego (although I’m not entirely sure I ever used the secondary stress on that one).

I’ve only ever heard ogeima, but I encounter both ponnuki and ponnuki. I find it a bit more natural to secondarily stress ponnuki, but I do use the primary stress as well in an inconsistent way.

It’s interesting that no-one ever seems tempted to use final stress on Japanese loanwords.

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Only Japanese: miai

Quite a big miss, as it’s one of the most important strategic concept and hard to express it with an English word

Good one. If I were to use only one word to translate it, maybe “equivalent”?

Yes would be close.

But it’s stronger than that isn’t it. More like “matched” “paired” or “linked”. It needs a sense of inevitably going together but ideally also with the feeling that it is something in the future rather than now.

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So tldr, “There is no English equivalent for this word.”?

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How about “either-or situation” or just “either-or” for short? That’s how I’d explain miai in English

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Nice try all of you but I think I’ll keep using miai especially because it sounds like a war shout of a martial art :dizzy:

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I’d translate miai sensu stricto (having to be equal value) as equivalents.

I’d translate miai sensu lato (if one player takes one, the other player takes the other, but the two points are not necessarily of equal value) as counterparts.

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This isn’t quite the right thread, but I just realised something.

honte = 本手 = 本 (ほん, book), 手 (て, move) = book move.

book move is already an establised term, so why not translate it literally?

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I could be wrong but I think because that’s not quite a literal translation of 本手… I think there’s some nuance lost, since although one of the meanings of the character is book, is that really the meaning in this context?

The character 本 also means real, proper, true in other contexts: 本当, 本物, …

I’m not really confident what book move means in general but I feel like it’s a little bit different?

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I think book move does carry the nuance of proper move, although established move might be a more accurate definition.

It’s related to the phrase in book / out of book, meaning in theory / out of theory, in regard to the opening.

book move could refer to a joseki move or a standard shape as well.

To put it simply, a book move is a move one is likely to see in a book.

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Would it be “textbook move”?

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If we’re going to take it literally, then it really should be book hand, though. :stuck_out_tongue:

But I agree with @okonomichiyaki, that the 本 here probably means “true” or “proper” (or better yet “origin”, “source” or “root”, since that’s what the kanji really means). The meaning of the kanji itself as “book” only seems to exist in Japanese, as they chose the first part of 本書 to represent book, instead of the more obvious second part (meaning “writing”)

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Book contains all kind of moves so book move is too general idea.

Honte has the idea of looking restrained or slow, but with best perspective for future. Hard to put it in one word.
A tesuji can be a book move but not especially honte.

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reminds me of this Mikkgo stream I was just watching (time stamped) https://youtu.be/ssxNdKAxYPc?t=930

“what is this magical textbook?”

:joy:

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