Non-Japanese Loanwords used in English Go Discussions?

I think the meaning of “textbook” is quite close. It’s something that is “correct” but not innovative. Accepted wisdom.
It doesn’t really captured the ideab that it’s saying anything up for the future though but in don’t think it’s ever going to be possible to match every nuance!

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The restrained and best for future is what is more important in the concept. By reducing the idea to a textbook move, it can even be misleading, a correct move you’ll find in a textbook is not always honte, like the solution of a life and death problem for example. Even more confusing would be a variant in a joseki tree, which is just a textbook move but doesn’t have the ideas of “honte”.
innovative/conservative: I don’t think it’s either correct opposition related to the concept it’s more about simply taking more risks or not, keeping solidity as being a regular way to play, not just being correct like in a textbook. Being a move recognized or an invention is not really the idea in honte.

I mean in this kind of strategic words-concepts, it’s really important to try to keep the full meaning. I care less if you say Keima or knight move.

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Starting to get dangerously close to derailing but I was curious, so looked it up:

Not what I expected but I also had a vague memory of hearing that joseki has a more general usage. And sure enough easy to find examples:

副大統領候補選びには定石があって、自分にないものを補うために、その人材を登用する。

Something like… (in the context of the first 100 days of the new Biden and Harris US administration)

As for choosing a vice president, there is a joseki, make up for your shortcomings

I haven’t seen it used before outside of Go. It would be confusing to hear English speakers use it to mean book move of course

To be clear, I only took issue with the idea of a literal translation of 本, and I’m not fluent by any means… and I certainly don’t play 本手 moves often so :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I think book move is probably fine. It’s an interesting discussion though!

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That’s interesting. In some way it means that joseki would be more the word to say as honte in a extended use of the “by the book” concept in go. He he let’s not use joseki for resolving a tsumego… Sounds weird to me :rofl:

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Regarding the broader usage of the term “joseki” in Japanese, here is what Toshiro Kageyama (7p) wrote in “Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go” (1978), as translated by James Davies:

Not at all a derailment. Discussing the meaning, connotations, and etymologies of phrases like these are entirely on topic for this thread.

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Great find! I will need to finally read it

I didn’t remember the whole past of the thread, but I felt that continuing to wander further on Japanese language topics was a bit off topic. Given the already large amount of “airtime” Japanese gets in the Go community, and this thread was for other languages, I worried…

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I quite like the word intermezzo, which is traditionally a chess term used to describe an exchange made during a larger conceptual sequence.

It’s an Italian term, of course, and is cognate to English intermediate or intermediary.

I don’t know of another word that covers the same meaning.

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A pretty common calqued name from Chinese is the golden chicken standing on one leg, which translates 金鸡独立 jīn jī dú lì.

I’m not averse to calling it a “double damezumari attack”. A lot of time it’s just referred to as the “golden chicken”.

image

intermezzo is very prominent in musical theater going back to at least the 18th century.

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