How you even think you can manipulate it? It is not even close to easy.
Also there is no premium service in the world that can detect cheaters in one tournament with confidence (assuming no recording or proctor). Whatever theoretical service Uberdude is mentioning would not fare as well as side recording at a desktop.
Well said Gia! Just because the tournament requires participant recording as an anti-cheat measure, does not mean tournament will be without cheating. In which case, why bother with the recording in the first place?
Just because you’re required to wear a seatbelt as a safety measure does not mean there will be no injuries or death in vehicles. Why bother wearing a seatbelt in the first place?
People use the same argument for so many things. Recording is a major deterrence. You’re arguing against strawmen if all you are trying to do is prove that recording is not preventing every cheater.
Problem is we don’t have any more go center to sell to pay these anticheat workers.
I know players want tournaments, rating… I can accept all these pis-allez, just don’t expect me to record myself.
And some day when we can meet again in front of a wood board , i hope that far away players tournaments will be organized differently, using real people and no camera and classic tournament just as before.
And all this mess will become obsolete, and internet rating a merely way to integrate oneself in the real world of go as i still don’t fully trust that online world and don’t value that much its rating and organization compared to the in person system.
Totally easy! Camera pointer at player - just get it to loop. Player is sat still most of the time. A long enough loop with a good looping point in a live stream is easily missed by referee. Have you seen that movie “Speed” with Keanu Reeves? If it’s not a live stream, easily edited later. Camera pointing at screen, easy to have another device out of shot. Participant recording does not prevent cheating by those who wish to cheat - just makes things more difficult for the honest majority. So, may as well not bother. Just trust the players to play honestly. I personally would not enter a tournament that has recording as a requirement on principle. JMHO
Camera faces player and screen at a side view… one camera…
Even still, your wild idea requires a technical savvy to get a live stream to loop or to edit a video without leaving a trail… sure sounds like a major deterrent and not something a kid could do.
In the case where it is a Skype stream - they have the same kind of protocol as IRL - if you suspect something crazy you can ask a referee to look at the stream and interact with your opponent.
Seatbelts is not a good analogy. They are proven to reduce serious injury and death. There is no evidence that recording makes any difference to cheating, or even that cheating is a prevalent issue, especially in amateur tournaments.
So start arguing how recording wouldn’t reduce cheating rather than how it can’t prevent it.
How much of an issue is cheating in the first place though? AFAIK, there has been a small number of pro incidents with big prize money involved. But are people really bothering in amateur tournaments that are supposed to be just for fun? Maybe recording would reduce incidence. But if incidence is low anyway, then the impact of not recording is negligible compared to the impact of putting up barriers to participation. JMHO
That is a real discussion. The “if it is still possible to cheat then why bother?” is not.
One thing is - do you realize that common sense recording obligation is limited to dan players? I think that there have been enough cheating accusations in major events that warrant trying out recording and seeing if it helps.
Same time there are strong players who refuse to record. Where is the balance?
I know you think a recording fixes everything and sets the bar high. All it takes is a bathroom break to consult an ai on a phone or other laptop (and that has happened in the chess world). Maybe that’s all a player needs to turn a game around at a critical point.
You can try to tell players they’re not allowed take bathroom breaks or smoke breaks etc. But what if someone knocks on your door and you’re home alone, what if you’re expecting a delivery, or have some other reason to need to answer it. The rest of the world doesn’t stop for two hours because a go tournament is on.
I you think the bar is high here, but people who want to cheat go to great lengths. Streamers who want a world record in speed running manipulate footage. And since this is just a recording you could probably edit it well enough to cover up things. In speed running some cheaters were only caught when very niche things like the audio file not looking normal but sounding very normal. Jump to ~10:49 below
Historically or? The Women’s Championship, http://gocentre.londongo.club/events/ewc-2021/, requires everyone to record.
All players must video record their play (example video ) and be able to provide these on request.Players unable to provide a video of sufficient quality on request might forfeit the game and/or be disqualified from the tournament.
This was mentioned at the top of the other thread we discussed in
Great. So we’ve set the standards to be equal to IRL tournaments. Just as easy to cheat there.
I’m happy to hear that you agree that they have to go to great lengths and still risk getting caught with evidence that can prove their guilt.
In 2020 they were all dan players. I imagine it is usually 90-100% dan players.
I participated in dozens of IRL tournaments without cameras and drastic regulations. Cheating never been in there. Seems online behaviors are just different, it’s not about how to rule the toilet break in my opinion. Good luck in having the same standards.
Indeed. Traveling to a go tournament is quite a deterrent. I know a lot of strong players who refuse to do it. I wonder how many more strong players refuse to attend tournaments due to the inconvenience compared to the ones who refuse to record themselves.
Impossible claim and it is just as easy for me to make the same claim about tournaments that requiring recording. Cheating has never happened there either.
Cheating has been recognized by cheaters online.
Give me a case IRL.
In a tournament that required recording. No.
That’s amazing to me. It sounds like two different parallel worlds. I enjoyed the sides things much more as inconvenience due to traveling. I wonder myself too about how many strong players prefer the scrutinity of a camera, the restriction associated and minimalistic forms of communication.
I just don’t see the point in trying to discuss this with you further. You ask something like demonstrate X and then childishly reply things like
It’s a bunch of tit for tat nonsense.
Going forward it might be everyone that has to record. Or it might be as uberdude and others have said that maybe some tournaments won’t be rated or won’t require everyone to record.
I just don’t know what your point is here @aesalon. You think recording is great with no issues, it sets the bar of cheating at least at the standard of irl tournaments, (which it doesn’t since you’re playing in the privacy of your home instead of likely being surrounded by other players, tournament directors etc). Recording doesn’t inconvenience anyone, the rules don’t pressure anyone who wants to participate who isn’t a dan player.
Anyone who says otherwise is incorrect and you just dismiss their concerns entirely.
Deter. Not prefer.