No? Your once again brought up how you can not prevent online cheating which is absolutely irrelevant and foolish. We want to reduce it and also reduce any accusations without evidence.
And you do it by suggesting a way to cheat that is 100% the same in IRL tournaments.
Let us not engage if you can’t be logical at all.
It’s not about being the same, as @shinuito just wrote there are less ways in IRL.
I said two parallel world, No need to pretend a majority in favor to your ideal.
Indeed. Which is why organizers are mandating recording procedures to reduce them. I feel like you think you’re disputing what I’m saying somehow though?
All I said is that leaving the playing area to look at a device is not something we can police IRL either.
Well organizers and sponsors who put money and effort into it are all that matter. Surely they will listen if ‘your’ majority is big enough or puts money up for no-recording tournaments.
How many more cheating allegations and professionals and near-professionals refusing to participate in their tournament can PandaNet tolerate before they stop sponsoring 18,000$ City Leaguetournaments?
That’s ridiculously small world, the pro world. Ama tournaments which have ridiculous prizes (what is 200eur for a first prize?) would better not follow the same way for 98% of go players and rely (and promote) different criteria as the hunt of cheaters
Ok then let us resume this when 200eur tournaments require everyone to record (or start considering it so we can stop it).
That’s more and less where we are already (coronacup etc…)
This is an interesting point. So participants make the recording but only have to submit it if there is an accusation of cheating? That improves the privacy issue somewhat since chances are no one is ever going to look at the recording anyway. Does not really affect the barriers to participation issue though as people might not have the equipment, technical know how etc. Though I guess people could risk it and just not bother with a recording. But then you might get loads of false accusations trying to catch people out who haven’t made a recording to steal a win by forfeit which is kind of a cheat in itself.
Imagine, i just won the ￡100 prize, lucky me!
I think the methods are really up in the air and trying to be figured out. And by the time we reach any kind of balance, IRL tournaments will start again and nobody will want to police online cheaters as much because they can get their serious Go in IRL tournaments.
Basically it will become a non-issue.
For me though, I like the Skypecall idea with a camera that captures head, monitor, and mouse hand and the recording will only be reviewed if there is an accusation. Players police each other (by calling admin if they see something fishy) and referees can observe the calls going on to check for irregularities.
I do completly share your perspective.
The concept of skype controlled (as a side developement of a kind of tournament)still look a bit out of control to me but not uninteresting. Well not so much for me, i will still prefer to travel as much as i can. To be working it may need a kind of community with some social control, which can be developed along the years but which is not existent yet. It will have difficulties as long as the regulation system is not in order. But you may not agree and feel the system to be enough grown up to run and perdure later.
I would rather investigate some multiplex tournaments beween different physical rooms happening at the same time. For example Berlin, London, Paris, Santiago, Chengdu, Istambul… Each room with 10-20 players playing with other rooms in direct (just boards stones and video transmission, computers and recording not required) with a few organizers in each room. Awesome?
Sounds great. Things like this might be how continental city leagues could improve their integrity going forward. Then more of a global city league would be a nice development.
From the European GO Federation website
- For semifinal, small-final and final games, a video-link between players is required, with a backup side-perspective video stored by participants, available on demand. A separate document “Fair-play in Online Go” (SEYGO_Tour_FairPlay_Policy, pdf) explains the anti-cheating measures in more detail.
If you go check that pdf there are no details on how to proceed these requirements (i guess they are obvious) but how It’s stupid to cheat and how they will surely catch you. And then how they will kick you forever (!) out of their world.
I just hope that something unclear will never happen.
Edit: this post and the two subsequent ones refer to a message that has been deleted.
The competition WYGC is supported by the Ing Foundation. Games have to be played using the Ing rules. The term “Goe” was invented by Ing Chang-Ki. It refers to games played with that set of rules.
Very strange
First i thought that chinese and japanese share the same ideogram (the second one “qi” chess, not the first “wei” surround)
Then i never heard ge and if i ask who knows ge i’m not expecting anyone to answer.
Which chinese rule is refered ? One from the chinese federation?
I don’t know.
Igo = 囲碁
Weiqi = 围棋 (simplified) = 圍棋 (traditional)
碁 is considered as a variant of 棋. Online dictionaries give the pronunciation “qi” and never mention “ge”.
I don’t know either which chinese rules they are talking about. Since Ing is from Taiwan, they may not refer to the chinese federation.
Then one can choose not to play in that tournament.
Cheating is a real problem. And in serious tournaments people want some assurance that is not happening.
There is no perfect solution at this time and probably not ever.
Why would you reply to a comment I made almost a year ago and not even address any of the points I made 
I wonder if anybody would be interested in a “please cheat” tournament where we try to figure out how difficult it is to cheat while on live video or in a recorded video.
As with speedrunning, evidence of tampering with footage might be more compelling than AI-like play.
Problem is i find cheating is very boring as an activity in itself. No motivation.
Pretty impossible to stop other than by a sense of honor it seems to me. Airpods + an accomplice with a cellphone and AI would suffice, just a few key moves to avoid raising suspicion. In an amateur game though I agree there’s…
