[poll] Should the new AI score estimator be disabled while a game is in progress?

This is genius! [And the mischievous side of me thinks that, to avoid UI clutter, it could replace the request undo button so it can be used to know if you should resign after your misclick]

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I say there should be an option to enable in all games. It’s worth noting that other servers historically have had stronger SEs than the old OGS SE and things are fine.

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other servers usually don’t have analysis tools.
The new SE could be much more efficient as the other servers ones

things are fine is your opinion, more as a fact.

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There is a will or a need at least to integrate real life rating and online rating. How will perform a online player using SE a. lot in a real life tournament? How detrimental will it be for the online players who don’t?

Besides let’s take a match online between two players of same level, one using and one not. My guess is the quality of the game will be distorted a lot, the one not using it being much stronger but still suffering a lot of setback because of the use of the SE by the other (like o cool could live here or well there is a weakness to use there…)

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My bottom line would be I can disable it for myself. Knowing if I am leading or losing many times is a very hard skill. On Fox server, there is this huge SE button, which once awhile I couldn’t resist to click and wish it is not available. :grinning:

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there is a big difference to me because analysis or time bonus is like you extend your brain, your hand while SE (or AI, quite similar) is an external source of information outside your own brain

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There is not. I just assume everyone online is cheating.

I don’t really care what tools anyone use as long as they choose moves with their own mind and account has statistically correct rank.

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A way to deal with all those new technologies and reconciliate could be to have two OGS.

The classic one focused to not use any help at all, and the high-tech one with all options open,

Same player ID but different ratings. Then everyone knows in which world he’s walking.

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This would solve the problem to cheat by quickly opening the game link in a private browser window. I like it.

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While accurate score estimation is a nice feature after a game, I fell like most others here that it encourages abuse during a game – especially in correspondence settings.

I do believe that a much more valuable feature which does not provide any potential for abuse would be improved annotation facilities. For example, instead of autoscoring, I would much rather like to be able to persistantly annotate areas of the board with my own estimated count, persistently keep track of moves I might respond with in case my opponent makes a moves somewhere, or even just have a flag next to the board that indicates that there is currently an important ko fight going on etc.

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OGS is and has always been a modern, feature-rich server. A quality score estimator is consistent with the server’s overall concept.

As someone who plays with analysis but never uses it, my take is that whoever trains themselves to rely on AI support only deceives themselves. They will rank up and play against other centaurs or more skilled opponents who do not depend on crutches.

Anyway, the game will be balanced. So why the hate and envy? Just play however you like, with our without SE.

If it can truly reveal good moves, maybe it can also be a good teaching tool. It would be a shame not to make it available (by default).

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It’s not just a matter of balance, but also of fairness. If it was only balance, then we might as well enable AI analysis in-game.

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But one doesn’t know one’s opponent’s ‘true’ ability. You can’t judge fairness without that.

I’m regularly playing the same people every so often and they are the rank they are. I don’t know if they use SE or Analysis never, once in a while, occasionally or all the time. All I know is that they are the rank they are and I’m having a fairly balanced game if they are about my rank.

Yeah, I suppose the danger is that everyone’s going to end up with a dan rank :wink:
If someone is using AI to play at dan levels then good luck to them, they’d soon get found out if they played IRL…

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Fairness… A bit of “big bag” word to me.
What I don’t like and fear is my opponent who is like my level even a bit weaker and suddenly has “9d” moves or decision beyond our level abilities. That’s more about fun breaking as anything else.

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I wonder how the discussion “we shouldn’t play online, only IRL, because you can’t moderate cheating online” went back in the day…
It seems the discussion has come a long way since then… or not.

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I opened a thread on using SE is cheating last year, but it closed quickly considering the low quality of SE then, postponing the answer for when needed

Found it!

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Ah yes, the thread where you blatantly called me a cheater. I remember. Fun times.


I think an important distinction that people fail to make is between

-Using score estimate is cheating (I do not agree, and I know there are people who think so, and imho they are consumed by cheat terror and lose focus on what we are doing here, which is playing Go online, nothing more, nothing less)

-Someone can use score estimate to cheat (I agree and there should be a discussion on what could be a balanced way to counter such attempts. anoek has made some good suggestions in the new thread)

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As @Gia said above…

It’s not that hard to actually see that correspondence games, because they do not replicate real life circumstances, should be banned or should not be ranked and that the only ranked games should be some form of live game

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Please don’t ban correspondence games, that’s the main reason why I migrated to this server!

… because I like playing high quality go, and I dislike when I or my opponent blunder because of time trouble … That’s why I like correspondence games.

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