not advocating banning correspondence just expanding on Rocco’s comment on games that do not replicate real life
I had half jokingly asked in another thread, since correspondence games are so historically accurate and important etcetcetc, what was the equivalent IRL of that so convenient OGS conditional move feature we all know and love. I never got a response… Maybe because IRL equivalent is not always the only way…
Correspondence games are not real games, thus I have quit playing them.
Sometimes I feel like the brain function of live vs correspondence is as different as 9x9 vs 19x19.
the sealed move could be seen as a equivalent
I don’t think that’s how conditional moves work, maybe I’m wrong.
ntAh yes true.
Well maybe there are no similar feature simply because it doesn’t make too much sense in a live game IRL, conditional tree being in each brain in a no stop elaboration.
If you want to consider IRL correspondence games (by mail? or phone call?) I guess is the same as online
Yeah, 9x9 is not real Go. lol
Server notification: drifterwolf has been lifebanned by mark5000.
All those features are still good. We just disagree when they can be used.
So there is a simple solution, make them paid services. OGS gets more fund to develop more wonderful functions. We can choose when we want to take advantage of them. To those of us who choose not to use them during the games, they are free. Win, win. lol
I wonder if realistically there could be 3 “easy sets of settings” for games:
- Teaching game: All allowed.
- Friendly game: (All allowed?/ Player defined?/) Number score estimator+ analysis enabled+ conditional moves.
- Ranked game: All is set at OFF, blood on the goban.
EDIT: Maybe “learning game” instead of “teaching game”? If two opponents decide either for A to teach B or A and B to learn from the experience and allow for all additional help available.
could add one “tournament unranked game” on request for tournament organizers (with all set at OFF)
And for teaching/learning games I’d prefer to keep options at convenience.
I don’t think we should be so focused on what the organizers want. If they want something they can ask for it. Running around trying to anticipate everyone’s needs and wants is counterproductive imho. And “player defined” (as in “what the tournament organizer has asked the players to do”) is an option.
BTW I don’t play ranked games, I expect organizers to ask for unranked games, and if they want analysis on/ off or whatever is up for discussion each time (I think it makes sense for everything to be off, fwiw)
I don’t think so. Because of the covid situation more tournaments were organized online and it’s nothing difficult to see what organization want. Offering them to use a adequate preset will contribute to keep them chosing OGS to run their tournaments.
I don’t think it’s helpful to discuss whether or not using the score estimator is “cheating”.
Cheating means “against the rules” and therefore whether or not it is cheating is a matter of what the rules are.
The question is actually whether or not it is the way we all want ourselves and our opponents to play.
I just can’t understand why we would want our ranked games to be played with AI assistance of the kind offerered by the scoring estimation visualisation.
I can understand why we’d all like to be able to ask “what’s the score looking like now”.
Hence that’s why I think the right answer is “give the score estimate when they ask for it - and only that. Show analysis in post-game review”
Visualization is needed to see what SE counts as your territory. You might think you’re behind when SE just doesn’t count a group you all agreed is dead.
I thought we were at the point where Kata’s estimate is pretty indisputable?
How often, in reality, would this not be the case?
How is there “you all agreed” in an in-game situation?
KataGo is very bad at predicting what groups I can kill (or defend). The number alone is meaningless without a picture.
If life and death is so uncertain at this point in the game, why are we asking “what is the score going to be”?
I had imagined the purpose of this was in a late mid-game situation, where the territories are approaching sealed, and the sole purpose of the estimator tool is to save us laborious counting.
If we are looking for help earlier than this in the game, I think we have to seriously ask why?
It could also be “My big-ish group just died should I resign?”. As in how many points am I now behind by (and people have suggested the score estimator to be useful as a “should I resign button”)
Now that big-ish group might live if you’re katago, or maybe you can get a good trade for it, but it’s definitely something that two players of the game might both think is dead and play away for a long time before making it properly dead.