Robots in Terrihill: Werewolf Game 3.0

Forum Games
163

I am not presenting a false dychotomy. The scenario you quoted already assumes that they decided to kill me, and have now to deal with the other decision.

Here is a handy chart: I’ll use the initials H, K, L, R & T (R: robot, T: townsperson) for all of us.

  1. If L is killed, this is what happens when night comes (I put in parenthesis who is directly responsible for the outcome of the game):
Who does R kill? Does K kill someone? Result
R kills K K kills R HT: win for townspeople (K)
R kills K K kills T HR: nobody wins (K)
R kills K K kills no one HRT: split (H)
R kills H K kills R T: win for townspeople (K)
R kills H K kills T R: win for robots (K)
R kills H K kills no one KRT: townspeople win half the time, the other half everyone loses (K)

The probabilities can be twisted in many different ways, but if we assume that the decision between killing R or T is 50%-50% (a reasonable assumption, even if it is not true in practice), it will always add up to 50% win for townspeople, 25% win for robots and 25% everyone loses.

  1. If R is killed: The result for the night would be HKLT, a forced win for townspeople. (HK)

  2. If T is killed: The result for the night would be HKLR. We kill H at night, which leaves K helpless 2:1 (there is no use in using the ability), a forced win for robots. (HK)

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164

The false dichotomy is that you are assuming that the only important choice is between yebellz and ginger2008.

The other choice is whether to first kill Leira today, or wait until tomorrow.

Your analysis is besides the point. If the decision between yebellz and ginger2008 was to be made completely by coin-flip, and there was no risk to the votes going awry, then sure, the game is a 50-50 toss up.

However, my point is that your disingenuous proposal to sway this decision does indeed offer potential advantage to the robots:

  1. Increases the risk of a disrupted vote today, and you are even trying to sow discord between HHG and KAOS.
  2. Forces HHG and KAOS to tip their hands with further discussion, which allows the robots to select who might be more biased to kill me, which would win the game for the robots.

If it made no difference to your chances of winning, then why would you care so much to insist on it? Please, don’t waste your time making up some silly role-playing excuse, if your previous post is a vacuous attempt to cast things from the logical gameplay angle.

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165

Rise and shine! It’s day!

166

So, @ginger2008 , what can you tell us? Are you a robot?

@everybody else: I would prefer to make the decision between ginger and yebellz today (and the day is long, as you all know) and not put it up by killing Leira today (or chasing them out of town, which might be sufficient :wink: ). Even thought Leira might be trying to manipulate and divide HHG and me, they have some valid points. I trust HHG, but I don’t like to make the decision all by myself in the end. The fate of this whole town in the hands of only one person - that’s just too much responsibility.

So let’s better decide today, together. (But be careful, of course, to not have the votes split up in the end…)

167

I honestly tell you that: I am no more than a human seeking peace.

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168

ginger, we need more than that from you. yebellz has been around all the time and offered help, unlike you, so if it comes down to the two of you, why should we trust you?

169

All i can say that even if I die , from the view of a townsperson our winning cahnce will be still high. @Leira dies, if i’m not the robot, then it will be 3 to one. No matter who the robot kills we still know @HHG is an innocent and so we will win.

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170

No, that’s not enough. We already know:

  • Leira is a robot
  • Kaos is the assaulter (innocent)
  • HHG is an innocent
  • Yebellz is either an innocent or a robot
  • you, Ginger, are either an innocent or a robot

In the end, we need to kill either you or yebellz, and if we make the wrong decision and kill the innocent of you, the robots (or Haze) win. If we kill the robot, the innocents win.

No matter how you look at it, it always comes down to that one decision, and because you have participated so little in our discussions, it’s very hard for HHG and me to believe you. At the moment, it looks like you might be the one who will die at the end of this day.

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171

Currently, @HHG and @KAOSkonfused, you have votes cast for different targets. You two need to cast your votes for the same person in order to prevent Robot interference that would cause the Innocents to lose.

Whether you two decide to kill either Leira or ginger2008, I will follow to provide the third innocent vote needed. However, if you two split your vote, then the robots can also kill one of you, which will cause the Innocents to lose even if we correctly kill Leira or ginger2008.

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172

It seems that you both haven’t reached a consensus. You do need consensus on any of the three choices.

Even though it’s been argued that I might interfere with my vote, that is mostly unfounded. No scenario leads to a robot win if you do not kill your own citizen. At best it leads to a Haze win, but that is a loss as well.

It should be very clear that we robots can trade a less than 50% chance as long as it is higher than 25%. Ending the game today instead of dragging it along would be an added bonus. Ideally, you both would have been conferring with each other, but that hasn’t happened.

Anyway, it seems either you should convince HHG to vote for ginger2008, or follow suit and vote for me.

173

Why should they trust you?

Wouldn’t the robots want to make the innocents lose as well, even if they cannot win? Surely that would be a small victory for them, and a risk that the innocents want to avoid.

I also do not appreciate that @Leira has sent me a PM about the game. The most important rule is not to attempt any communication about the game outside of this public thread. I am fed up with people not taking this game and respecting the rules seriously.

Has anyone else gotten PMs from other players? This is ridiculous. We’re here to play a game. Please do not waste our time with not following the rules. @Haze_with_a_Z, I expect that you should decide what to do about this, as game master.

Ideal for the robots for them to tip their hands.

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174

Alright, I merely asked you if you were upset. Believe it or not, I do not like upsetting people. I did not think it was an appropriate think to ask in public because it was personal, but since you brought it up, I must say it publicly now. You decided to simply ignore it, as if a mere game suddenly negates any kind of cordiality.

What is your point? You wanted people not to lie when the game requires lying. Yet it is actually surprising how little lying I needed to do so far. You don’t want role play in a role playing game. You want to resolve a game based on logic even though logic alone cannot solve it. But then if I lay out the logic of it you don’t like it either.

Basically you wanted me out as soon as you found out that it did not go the way you wanted.

I would easily let go of some “rude” behavior like telling someone to “shut up”, or taking it to particular adjectives like “vacuous” or “silly” if it is entirely circumscribed to the context of said game. However, it’s almost as if you treat the opponent faction as actual villains, it is weird man.

175

Look, I was not upset about how you were playing the game before you sent that message. This game naturally involves deception and psychological manipulation. By signing up to play, we have to accept that we may be dishonest and manipulative with each other. You can be as conniving and manipulative as you like, but as long as you do one simple thing:

PLAY BY THE RULES

I do not mind your lying and manipulation in the game. That I welcome, since it shows that you are actually trying to play. However, I resent that you crossed the line to send me a private message to discuss the game. And yes, I don’t just consider that to be only personal, since by aiming to console any upset feelings that you mistakenly project that I might have, you are perhaps aiming to manipulate me to be less harsh on shooting down your attempts to sway the town in the game.

I expect players to follow the rules, not to bend and break them. That I consider uncordial, and I was not going to deepen this farce by continuing a conversation with you about the game via private message.

Do not deign to grossly misrepresent my desires. I fully want all players to be engaged and play as well as they can. For some, that means lying and manipulation, which I wholeheartedly welcome as part of the game. I asked that only all of the innocents play openly and as honestly as possible (except to keep roles hidden until opportune), since I believe that would be the best strategy.

Look, I’ve laid out my counterarguments about why your modest proposals introduce risks for the innocents. Don’t be so dismissive about my logic. Clearly, there is merit to my warnings against your play, since now the vote is split and vulnerable to interference from the robots.

I want you out because you are a robot and it is sound strategy to eliminate you.

Look, I welcome your lying and manipulations. That’s all part of the game, and you should see my responses as part of that game too. How can you accuse me of being thin-skinned and then turn it around by complaining about my play? We are battling over the fate of the game, with you having to serve as an awkward proxy since your co-conspirator ginger2008 is absent. Honestly, before your message, ginger bothered me far more for making such little effort at participating in this game, which really just wastes all of our time.

I am not offended about how you’ve played within this thread. That has been brilliant. However, I am offended that you chose to break the rules with external communication and act like that’s not a big deal, or that I’m not being cordial enough to you.

176

I guess we all have different priorities. But I wasn’t aiming at manipulating you (not in real life, I mean).

Possibly there is very little I can say to make you believe this, but it doesn’t matter I suppose. You are saying that you find it plausible that I might want to manipulate you from the outside. That I find weird. But I guess there is no reason to trust that anyway.

If you must know, it is very difficult for me to know what people mean sometimes, so I usually just mean what I say. In any case what I expected was an answer, like “Nope, I’m not offended” which would have followed an “alright then”. It would have continued all the same.

But since you already said this was not the case, then I misunderstood. Be it as it may, I have spoiled it now. I’m sorry about that. Truly.

If there’s any consolation for this anticlimactic ending, you winning was the most likely outcome.

177

Woah… Okay… :open_mouth:

Well, from my perspective… I’ve enjoyed most of this game so far (even if we might lose, so far I find it more interesting and exciting than an easy win), and I especially liked Leira’s roleplaying, but I totally get that yebellz is annoyed by any rule breaking. We simply should not PM each other at all at the moment.

But apart from that PM, there have been several problems before during this game… Sports_for_Life was banned, Ginger has barely played with us at all, and 李建澔2 apparently didn’t fully read and understand the rules, so there were three out of eight people who (although maybe unintended) kind of sabotaged the game. All of this sums up for me to a general annoyance and with this background, any rule breaking is hard to tolerate.

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178

But back on topic:

@HHG , please let’s coordinate our strategy. If you insist on killing Leira today, please tell me and I’ll change my vote. But I don’t feel fully comfortable with this decision - I’d like to make the decision between yebellz and ginger today. I don’t think there will be any more input from ginger and any more information, so imho we should kill/confront ginger first, and the game might be over then. However, no matter how we decide, the two of us need to make an unanimous decision, so it can’t be overruled by the robots. What do you think?

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179

I consistently tear down your logic and you don’t like that and so you call me weird. I don’t like that you break the rules, so you call me weird again.

Can you understand why I find your PM to be completely disingenuous? Why should I believe that it was ever about a genuine concern when you just resort to this type of personal attack?

180

*A voice whispers in the willows, a ghost of a soul devoted in protection, even from the great beyond:
“As Jesus said, when He witnessed the Mullet: “I did not die for this :roll_eyes:””.

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181

Anyways if the innocents cooperate correctly they will for sure win here no matter how the robots play

182

Can you stop it please?

It’s just a game…

You’ve made your point

And @李建澔2 , you’re dead, you’re not supposed to join the discussion about the game… FFS

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