Rudeness about the undo button

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I’ve run into bullies online who claim that it is polite and you are obligated to let them undo their move.

This behavior is immature and childish.

If someone wants to undo, and I’m playing random games against people I don’t know, I say no. I don’t care if you think you made a mistake. You probably did because the reason they want to undo, most of the time, is that I’m winning.

Me, I don’t care whether I win or lose I am just passing the time. Passing the time in a way I think is intelligent and also noble.

In fact, I actually do have a problem sometimes with misclicking. Well, my hand will have a little seizure and I’ll slam my mouse and then it will disconnect. I usually grab my wacom pen.

However, seizures or no seizures, I try to be courteous.

We are not obligated to undo. This game is taken very seriously, as seriously as chess. This is an art, this is a sport, there are no undos in real combat.

I can see how undo might be fun with a friend or with your go teacher.

However with a stranger who just wants to change the outcome, and then tries to make you feel guilty for not allowing them the privilege, it is beneath the game.

I’m not asking for anything, however it is something to think about.

I hope everyone be pleasant and courteous on this server, and all about enjoying the game. I want to make other friends who are interested and have talent for go.

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To be fair, they could indeed be children.

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The OGS policy is as follows: Players are allowed to ask for an undo, but if the request is rejected, the player who made the request is prohibited from arguing about it, harassing, or retaliating against their opponent by stalling or other acts of bad sporting behavior. Players may alert their opponent in advance that they reject undo requests by naming their game “No Undos” or something similar.

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Yes, I find everything you’re saying very unfortunate. Some players feel that if we implemented something (like undo requests), their opponents need to let them use it. But that’s just not true. Our documentation makes clear that:

The easiest way to handle this situation is to ignore these players, but that probably won’t satisfy you or them. If you feel up to it, you can share a link to our documentation and let us be the bad guy rather than you. Or you can take a radically different approach and block the players using your moderation controls. The choice is yours. But in any case, we hope that you’ll treat your opponents respectfully and be a positive presence here.

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Sorry to hear that you experienced that. But don’t worry - most people here (in my experience at least) are not rude about undo. If it happened to me, I would report it with the “call moderator” button - then they can be given a warning so hopefully it won’t happen anymore (or repeat offenders can be banned).

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If someone is being rude, antisocial, or bullying/pressuring you, please also report these users to the moderation team so we can remind them that behaviour is not acceptable here.

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Well… If you are going to put a stone somewhere and it slips from your hand and lands in a random position in the board…I would expect that your opponent lets you pick it up and place it in the desired position…

Undos are like that for me, everyone makes mistakes, I don’t see why not make it easy for everyone

Even if they place a stone somewhere and then undo upon regret, no missclick… Why not let them?
It would give you a tougher move to respond and learn from.
It’s them who are cheating themselves…
So win win for me

Having said that, there is no obligation to accept undos, and no excuse for being rude about it

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Well, those bullies can hardly object if in case of recidivism the moderators politely UNDO their OGS membership, can they?
:innocent:

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Don’t disgrace our glorious BAN HAMMER with your petty niceties :wink:

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Sometimes I love the use of subtle understatements and irony.
But if you want to use more drastic means to weed out rudeness on the forum, I won’t object to that :grin:

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See also "No Undo" option? – a related thread from 2018.

I forget whether undo requests appear in Zen mode; if not, OP could play on that.

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Hi,

Yes, I agree it is annoying for an opponent demand an undo. That shouldn’t happen, call a mod.

But if I could take a bit of issue with your approach. I don’t think it makes sense to take it so seriously. :slight_smile: While I agree that Go is an art and a sport, I don’t agree that it is real combat. So the goal is not to win at all costs. In a tournament for money, sure undos usually aren’t allowed anyway so be it. But playing online on a server… (a) it’s not that big a deal and (b) we’re all working with different set-ups.

If your opponent clicks one square over because their mouse slips… And it’s a game losing move do you think you really deserve that win? If you claim this is any sort of serious mind game, I’d claim not really - you won on a physical mishap. Are you obligated to give the undo? Of course not. But I think the undo is in most cases the honorable thing to do, and if you consider Go an art form, you would consider granting it (assuming your opponent hasn’t been spamming the undo button).

If your opponent can change the outcome by undoing… my friend, you weren’t winning :wink:

EDIT: Ohp, just realized @n0w3l basically covered all of that. Well said my friend.

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It is real combat. It is combat of the mind. I don’t want to be beaten only due to a manipulation.

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also usually, an undo would not fix their loss.

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That’s fair, but just like your opponents can’t pressure you into giving in to their undo request, you can’t project your experience of Go upon your opponent either. Some players just play it for fun, some play it for competition, some play it for meditation, some play it for mental fitness, some play it for the social contact, and so on. Every player has their own point of view.

I happen to have the view that Go (for me) is not about combat or competition. I also personally don’t see undo requests after playing a mistake as manipulation, but it may be because I mostly play correspondence, where timing is virtually of no importance.

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But you’re okay with a win due to a misclick?

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Consider playing your opponent at their absolute best… To have no regrets as a warrior :wink:

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Haha I’m now going to send this any time I grant an undo request

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I do play it for fun, meditation, and social contact. But I don’t delude myself into thinking it’s not combat. I practice mindfulness meditation, in fact, and yoga. I think projecting our experience of the game is what we do to each other when we talk about it, ne?

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As you can see in this thread, and the previous, many people think different things.

This is why OGS policy is really quite clear on the matter. You can ask for an undo, but you can’t pursue it. Seems right to me… caters for all those opinions, other than the ones who insist that their opinion is the only right one…

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