Through the Years: Long Correspondence

[BHydden]

My guess would be that it probably just always says paused if the game is paused for any reason, and they wrote a specific case to overwrite that with vacation if user is on vacation. Doesn’t mean the game isn’t paused

[trohde]

I finally finished another game (two more to go)

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@BHydden

When it’s paused there is a big button that says unpause or resume or some such thing.

That button is only visible for the players and for moderators (but I think the case is clear now anyway?).

So, moderators can unpause paused games, BUT should we not have a mandate from the tournament director to do that?
Is @ DVbS78rkR7NVe still active?

[_Sofiam]

@trohde

So, moderators can unpause paused games, BUT should we not have a mandate from the tournament director to do that?

I don’t think so. These games don’t involve only the players of the paused games, but also everyone else who is waiting for them to finish. It would be unfair to keep them paused.
If we receive a report about (or notice) a paused game stucking a tournament we resume it usually.

[trohde]

So… is it possible to get a list of games that have been paused for, say, three months or more?

What threshold should we use? I mean, if a game has been paused for two days there might be a legitimate reason, and it might be easier if the number of games to check is not too high?

[BHydden]

In general I don’t mind unpausing the last game in a round, but this tournament is specifically called “Through the Years: Long Correspondence”

…I feel like any arguments that a paused game is holding up the tournament would struggle to find any merit

[Lys]

@trohde

is it possible to get a list of games that have been paused for, say, three months or more?

Yes.

@Lys

two games … They’re paused since Wednesday 17 March 2021

That’s all.
I can provide IDs for those games, if necessary.
But I still think that two games at this moment aren’t a big deal.

Instead of just resuming them, I think it would be more appropriate to try and contact that player.
We have plenty of time.

[Groin]

As long as noone is doing something against the rules, i don’t see why so many discussions.

It’s up to the players to decide how they play this tournament within the rules, not up to the spectators to ask changes because whatever they feel. If a player want to take his time, play a few moves every x months and if this is part of the initial deal, well fine to me.

[Lys]

@Groin

fine to me

I agree with that, but of course a paused game could stay paused forever if the two players involved don’t take action on that.
So I think it’s fine to monitor those games and, possibly, to ask those players if they’re aware that their game is paused since more than a year now.

[yebellz]

When you ride on a fast train, it feels like the whole world is rushing past, except when you look up at the sky, and it feels like it is standing still.

But when you lie on the grass and gaze up at the clouds, you may notice that they are slowly drifting by.

[richyfourtytwo]

@Groin

within the rules

@Groin

if this is part of the initial deal,

That’s a bit fuzzy as far as pausing the game is concerned. I’m pretty sure if someone pauses a game for a year in a ‘fast correspondence’ tournament, people would complain a lot (and a lot earlier than after a year). But would pausing there be ‘against the rules’? Is it here? TBH I don’t have a good answers to those questions.

[Groin]

I see the point.
The thing is that the concept of this tournament is pretty extreme too so i dunno if the goal is to just keep it going at all cost and this let me consider all cases i can imagine or afterall a kind of experimentation which could stop anytime if the rules were too loose.

[trohde]

Thing is …

… imagine that some day all of those (I think) few hundred games are finished …

… except those two paused games where no move has been played (for ~1.5 years meanwhile) …

… the next round for all the other players cannot begin unless these two games are finished …

And now?

And, as was mentioned before, with the tournament’s settings, even when unpaused now they could play on for two or more years …

[teapoweredrobot]

This is exactly it. There is precisely zero harm in reaching out to the players pausing and asking about their plans.

If there is no response, try again in a couple of months, and a couple more months, etc. If there is still no response by the time these games are the last ones then unpausing seems very reasonable. If they respond then we’ll have an answer too. I don’t really see that there is a big problem.

@Groin

the concept of this tournament is pretty extreme too so i dunno if the goal is to just keep it going at all cost

Pretty extreme in terms of an expectation that it would last many years but not so extreme that it can never actually end. The expectation is for moves about once a week plus weekends and vacations which are not indefinite.

Edit: maybe the most problematic scenario is that each pausing player says “I want to be the last to finish the round so I will unpause when all the other games are finished” and since there are two of them each thinking the same…

[KAOSkonfused]

I share this view and I volunteer to contact the players - if you tell me who they are, @Lys .
I’ll just kindly ask if they are still planning to continue their games.

[Atorrante]

Shouldn’t the tournament director - @DVbS78rkR7NVe - be the one who does this?
Or is the TD no longer active?

[_Sofiam]

@richyfourtytwo

But would pausing there be ‘against the rules’? Is it here?

Imho yes.

Terms of Service

By using our service you agree not to:
…

• Disrupt the normal flow of dialog or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other users’ ability to communicate through or use Services provided by Online-Go.com.

That tournament had specific time settings. Pauses should be avoided in tournament games if there are also other players who have not said that they agree.

[_Sofiam]

I find your post more outrageous. And you’re even a moderator.

@BHydden

Firstly, the section you quoted is about how users talk to each other and has nothing to do with pausing.

I am not a native speaker, but “otherwise act” doesn’t mean only talking from what I understand. That part is what makes stalling unacceptable for example.

@BHydden

Secondly, we have never restricted who and when a pause can be initiated, because each player is limited to only 3 per game and their opponent can cancel the pause at any time.

This applies to normal game, where the 2 players can keep the game paused and no one else is involved. In tournament games there are other players involved.

@BHydden

Thirdly, and possibly most importantly, the TD specifically stated the tournament has been made long to aid in player connection and avoid time outs.

I think the terms of service come first. This is different from Alan turing where it is clearly said that you can use an AI because it is not clearly said anywhere that you can keep your games paused possibly indefinitely. And now it would be too late to state it.

[Kosh]

There’s a thread somewhere else where the issue of pauses in tournament (and ladder) games has been discussed. It is a problem.

If a tournament game is paused soon after starting and only unpaused after the others are done because it is now “holding up the tournament” you can almost double the length of each round, just speaking generally. The settings of this particular tournament are ludicrous anyway.

[_Sofiam]

@BHydden

So are you, that’s what makes your interpretation so scary.

Same impression. Maybe you didn’t play enough tournaments, I don’t know.

@BHydden

I don’t think anoek believes that no pauses should ever be allowed in any tournament unless given direct, stated consent. But that seems to me what you’re arguing for.

Not exactly, I am not saying that they should not be allowed, I am saying that players should not be allowed to stuck tournaments with paused games without everyone’s consent. I think pauses are okay as long as they don’t prevent the tournament from proceeding (forcing everyone to wait).

[BHydden]

I have been reliably informed that I am the one out of touch with anoek’s latest guidance on the matter, and as such retract my previous statements and offer my unreserved apology.