just finished all my 3 day daily games of chess for today and feeling pretty good about where I stand in about 3/4 of those games the other 1/4 I am sure to lose and it only matter of few moves each till they are lost – now on to go have played 165 games so for the week I started in go and won only 6 most of which where gemmes or abandonment wins so really they don’t count read two articles on go both of which where way above my head about shapes and wedge positioning etc - I have watched a couple of u tube videos one was helpful two others where not – can’t find any info on how to play step by step beginnings so I can relicant them in a game–they all just show you scenarios of this corner or that dragan thing etc – will I keep looking on to play go today I am limiting them to about ten games maybe I will try correspondence game forcing me to think more about moves and do research on my next move
Maybe have a look at (playlist)
There’s some example 9x9 games.
Another 9x9 video
I have been playing for almost 6 months, so I think I know where do you stand right now. I am still far, far away from been a good player, but I am enjoying the process. I did not play chess, so I felt not frustrated about my difference in skills between the two games, and that may be a disadvantage for you.
My sugestions. I use the app Sente online go, because I like to play in my phone/tablet. Ogs has a better interface, but I will explain my process of learning.
First play. At first 9×9 is easier to understand, at least it was for me. I played a lot against bots. The good thing is that they do not feel frustrated about your bad moves or other beginner mistakes. Also, when you created an account in ogs your ELO by default is too high (I think around 800) and the bots will help you to downrank, which is good because when you star playing against humans they will be actual beginners.
When you can loock at a finished game against the AI, and you stop having the feeling that it is malfunctioning and cointing your points as its own (trust me, it is not miscounting, I was there not so long ago) you will probably be ready to play against humans. Apart from playing there were two resources that helpede me to achieve this step. One was the “Learn the game” section on the Sente app (not sure if that is directly abaliable from OGS) and the other were the first tsumego (go puzzles) from the collection “Cho Chin Chuck Enciclopedia of life and death” (this collection has a direct acess from OGS as far as I know).
When you feel like it, you can give a try to 13×13 and 19×19 (don’t be afraid, 19×19 is were it is most of the fun). At this point, two resources that you can find in OGS and helped my a lot are Mark5000 “Stone development for beginners” and “Tactis tutor” in that order.
If you keep playing and reach this point, you may hit a little plateau, and there asking for reviews online (the comunity is very suportive) or even better finding a local club would be great options.
Sorry for the text wall, and I wish you the best of lucks in your journey into go.
I have read your other post. I am going to try to send you a challenge, so we can have a teaching game. I am far from a proficent player, but I wish I may be of some help to you. If you are not interested, feel very free to decline my challenge, no hard feelings. It will be a non ranked game, so neither of us can lost rank regardless of the results.
i have played a few more games up to almost 200 games now , trying to get wedge shape going and the snake option but every time I try it I get stopped and then lose stones - on 9x9 board, 6 stones is my limit to lose before I get frustrated and need to stop don’t want that that’s for sure in this game so I will just keep it light and play
That’s still mysterious to me. Sorry if I don’t understand. Please explain us what is this.
well, from what i can understand, the wedge system is control lower right corner and upper right column about three lines in from edge then expand lower right to lower left about three lines in – sounds easy enough I have yet to accomplish this always stopped cold and lose stones - the other snake thing is from top to bottom all touching each other – now this I have done on a few occasions but still once done lose to others as they grab more area before I can get the snake thing going to the edges - I most certainly am doing this wrong - but I will keep trying next couple of days – at 210 games played over 10 days only won one real game others I wn 6 games where from other players giving up for some reason so they don’t really count
I’ve never heard of this system. Can you link to some source for this system (like a youtube video or a page on senseis)?
Let me just link your old first post here for reference
I’m curious too, if you could link the video or tutorial which inspired you.
It seems to me that you encountered two inspiration for the opening.
The first one that you call “the snake” but that we call more usually “the great wall” is to cut the board in half. Like this:
This is considered as a not so good strategy. Here you rely on fighting with your strength coming from your line to make troubles and get back some territories. It’s a very special strategy which may work for good fighters but let’s be clear that this not a normal strategy.
The fact is that in go, at the reverse of other board games like chess the center is less important as the edges. So the usual way is to start from the corners.
That is maybe linked with what you call “wedges”.
There is the idea to control an area with stones. Imagine that your stones are working together or working with edge. You cannot just place one at the contact of the one before, that’s often too slow. You have to build some frames, limiting the possibilities of your opponent between your stones. You ll put doors and windows later. So you will leave some empty space between your stone and the edge. (The 2 edges in the corner)
So at the beginning:
Leaving no space is nosense=playing on the first line
Leaving one space is better but too restrained, you only control a one space area=playing on the second line
Leaving two space is interesting. It’s solid, it’s pretty hard for your opponent to come between. It’s called "the line of the territory (the third)
Leaving three is even bigger but less solid. This time your opponent has more easiness to play between but if so you can let him steal your territory and get in exchange influence on the outside. So you guess we call it “the line of influence” (the fourth)
So what I recommend is: play the corners then the edges then the center. Try to make some balance alternating between third and fourth lines.
Play the corners is more as putting 1 stone in an empty one. It’s adding one more to enlarge it (called shimari) or approaching a stone of your opponent occupying a corner already (called kakari). It’s even more and may include subsequent moves leading both players to take some territories or influence around the corner. These sequences when locally perfectly played are called joseki. It’s bit like if you have a chess opening in each corner (with encyclopedia to study if you like it) and then you ll have to make your choices to make them work well together, including moves on the edges (no encyclopedia for that besides a few popular ways to proceed, you have instead to master some fondamentals).
I hope this could help. But remember the most important above all said and the most easy to forget: each stone you put should be the biggest to play on the whole board!
Corners, edges, center. 3rd and 4th line.
From their profile page on OGS, it looks like they primarily play 9x9, then 13x13, and only about a dozen 19x19 games. The centre is pretty close to the corners on 9x9, generally focusing on the corners first is not so great on the smaller board.
Hi NEWOLDGUY
So, I took a look through a few of your games - mostly the 13x13 games - and I have a few general suggestions for you.
First of all - I would strongly encourage you to get more familiar with the concept of a living group:
In many of your games, I noticed you making eye-less sticks, specifically creating one long group that keeps getting longer - kind of like Tron light cycles.
Yes, you keep expanding your liberties in such a strategy but - unless that group can make two eyes or unconditionally capture their surrounding groups, it will eventually become a dead group, long before your opponent spends to stones to finally capture it. The OGS score estimator is a good early-warning system in this regard.
Because this game has such a steep learning curve (as you mentioned) I’ve spent some time trying to figure out how to explain the necessary change in mental framework to non-Go players, because it is so different from so many games you may have tried before. I wrote a whole 19x19 FOR BEGINNERS series and - because you mostly play 9x9 or 13x13, that may not be of interest for you - or the material may be too dense
However, I am wondering if you might benefit from my most recent article on SHAPE
Specifically just the first half of the article where I describe the different shapes in Go, and how they work together - rather than the sample game which forms the 2nd half of the article.
Rather than expanding one continuous group (which can be very useful in particular contexts, but not always appropriate) - learning about shape will help you play lightly - i.e. knowing when to leave spaces between your stones, and figuring out how to connect them into functional frameworks down the road if and when they’re challenged.
If you like that article, I’ve embedded links to the earlier ones, feel free to have a look if and when you have time. There’s a lot of content there, so I understand it may be a bit overwhelming.
But yeah, wrapping one’s mind around Go involves absorbing a LOT of new mental frameworks, and - until you get a handle on all of the different underlying dynamics that are shaping the game - you will continue hitting your head against those seemingly invisible brick walls, and having your groups run out of chances to make life long before you realize they’re dead
At 25k?
I guess it’s not that much of an issue if you focus more on the corners on 9x9 at 25k. I guess what I was trying to get across is that if someone is focusing on the centre rather than the corners on a 19x19 board, then learning about the importance of the corners and having a greater focus on them is an important lesson to learn.
Trying to get them to focus on corners, side extensions, then the centre isn’t really something that is going to improve their 9x9 games, which is the bulk of what they play. It could be detremental, it probably is not that big of an issue at 25k, but I don’t think it’s something that will improve their games. On the larger boards, sure, but I think we should make it clear that they shouldn’t count on this as a way to get better at 9x9.
thanks all for your input it really helps to understand this game more from others