It isn’t though, these people could’ve easily registered their protest, they did not have to throw rocks or fireworks (apparently they even were throwing knives in some places), they don’t have to burn cars, they don’t have to destroy shopping windows or bus stops.
They did, though. That’s when the riot police comes in and asks them to leave.
They could just leave then, go home, not make trouble, come back in a few days when the local government gives them space for a protest.
But they don’t: they want to riot, they want to fight.
There’s a story of a news reporter, having to flee through a private garden to escape a 15 man mob trying to lynch him for being part of the “fake” news agencies.
Democracy may not be a perfect state form, but I don’t really know of a better alternative.
And democracy in the Netherlands is not the worst out there:
I don’t want to get into an argument, so I will not go into stories about riot police here and there and elsewhere, about how police is supposed to be held to a higher standard and deescalate, not punish, and all that stuff we all hopefully agree on.
Very, very recently, another country that thought it had all its problems solved, its media reigning and its laws in place was reminded of the harsh reality and disconnect between what we want to believe for our country and what is true about our country.
Saying someone is a rioter, so they “deserve” any kind of police brutality, (I wasn’t there, but I guess neither were you) is a slippery slope. Maybe that was indeed the best way that situation was supposed to end, but automatically saying “my country can do no wrong, police can do no wrong, we are not like those other countries” is dangerous. Even if it’s true, it’s better to pause before we assert.
Just don’t rest on your laurels, is what I’m saying.
This is not at all the discussion I wish to have either.
I just wish to remark that the video @S_Alexander shows a very one-sided story, of a group of “peaceful” protesters being pushed away by police. Meanwhile if you look at the videos posted on other places, you find out that the protesters are not peaceful.
Look at this one, for example:
It gives a completely different image of what happened.
People who want to protest a curfew don’t need to destroy a shopping street. That is simply not what protesting is…
I’m also not saying they deserve violence, they deserve to be nonviolently arrested for destroying stuff and attacking police. But there is a problem with trying to get a mob of violent people to just go along when you ask nicely (which the police did, for 30 minutes before clearing the area, by the way).
The fact that violence has to be used here is repulsive in any way shape or form.
Also, finally, I’m not saying my country can do no wrong, or that our police can do no wrong.
I’m saying that in this instance I find the protesters here to be absolutely out of line. We haven’t seen this kind of thing in decades in the Netherlands, generally our riot police does not have to show up, since these things happen in a peaceful manner. Here it doesn’t.
Shops are being destroyed and looted in Tilburg as we speak. My wife receives videos of that from coworkers who live there (apparently these videos are being spread around there).
I just want to point out that, in a recent event, our media* was clearly showing video of a bottle of water flying towards riot police (maybe 1 Molotov as well, I’m not sure), and at the same time the news anchors reciting the formal police report that 150 Molotovs were thrown in that incident. (Fun fact, the Minster of Police was basically whining the following days that now everyone has a smartphone and clips go around of things not exactly as described in reports, following a similar comment he had made some time ago.)
(*If your immediate response is “yeah, your media, our media is not like that”, maybe it’s time to take a pause.)
This is not about the specific incident, as I said maybe it was indeed the right way to respond at that time, but rather for the visceral response of “we are not like this, we are better than that”. We need to be vigilant, is all I’m saying.
In other corona news, I have no idea what we are even doing at this point. Measures are a joke. New strand is probably here, but who knows?
EDIT to add: Apparently it was reported we have 30 case of the new and improved.
Good point, but in the video above it does not look like 1 stone being thrown.
Also, the video below does not look like people who are protesting a curfew, it looks like a bunch of bored egotistical teenagers wanting to make a mess for the sake of making a mess:
Above and beyond all:
If only people would just observe the corona restrictions, actually work from home, decide not to visit their friends every week, then a curfew would not have been necessary.
It’s not the people who are doing their best to prevent the pandemic from worsening that are the reason our government has to make more and more restrictions.
I don’t disagree that people don’t care to do their duty in a pandemic (we are a selfish, dumb species and I stand by my statement). But, as I said before, sometimes people don’t abide by government guidelines because for some reason they don’t trust government guidelines. Maybe they act out (childish, but that’s people). I do not excuse the behavior, but the explanation isn’t always “people are bad”. (Sometimes it undoubtedly is, though, see previous entries on a different matter.)
I’ll go on again for our government: they impose strict quarantine measures, then open up borders to get that sweet tourist money. They impose more measures, then ignore epidemiologist guidelines for schools because after school tutoring has strong lobbying power. Then they impose even more measures, but leave out religious superspreaders. Then they impose stricter measures blaming youngsters for hanging out and beat up schoolkids and then open up shops so holiday season money rolls.
I do well, personally, staying inside, but I can understand someone saying “f*** absolutely all of you, I’m going out after curfew”.
I can, and I agree, I’m definitely not a fan of how my government handled the pandemic, although my point of view is opposite (of those protesters): the government should do a better job explaining why the measures are there, and they should be both stricter and have less exceptions.
I still feel an absolute lockdown for 3 weeks would’ve brought us less economic hardship and less people in the hospital.
But seeing groups of people destroying stuff, burning things, and saying things like “there they are, charge!” when the police arrives, it just has nothing to do with that at all. It’s a completely separate thing from deciding to say “f** y’all, I’m going out after curfew”.
I did not suggest an alternative to democracy, I pointed out that democracy is a flame that needs constant supervision; if we go to sleep confident it will keep going on its own we might wake up to ashes.
Seems to have worked in Italy and Spain back in Spring, it’s doing wonders in the East Asian countries, look at how Australia and New Zealand have handled the pandemic.
It’s not impossible, it’s just that my government is too lacklustre to actually do it.
There’s no absolute lockdown. A lot of jobs are not lockdown-able. And at the end of 3 weeks, coronavirus will still be there. So you won’t be able to reopen economy. And in a couple of months, you’ll have big numbers again.
I like softer longer measures. Because coronavirus is a marathon, not a sprint.
I agree. And I’m not confident at all that it will keep going well. I worry how some populist, nationalist, racist, mysogynistic politicians are becoming more popular in recent years. We have seen it happening before. I don’t trust these at all to maintain our democracy if they ever get in power here.
That’s what I say to all who protest about consecutive lockdowns.
Very true and I feel for them, who have to do their job in these conditions.
However, to help them as well, the rest of us, who are lockdown-able, should observe the lockdown measures. I think I won’t die if I don’t buy cheese curlers in a shop during lockdown.
It only took us a year and seeing that the UK is considering it (quarantine after travelling from abroad), to realise that maybe making rules and not enforcing them was a bit silly.
Some interesting development regarding the riots in the Netherlands. The Dutch police force got help in a few places from quite the unexpected side: football hooligans went to the streets to “protect their city” from the anti-covid protesters. And it seems to work: rioters stay away when there’s football hooligans defending shops from being looted.
Amen.
