My Grumpy Sensei and I (An experiment with AI)

That’s something that’s not obvious to me, and I’m not sure what it means.

(EDIT: Oh, I see that OP in this case mean “original post” not “Orignal Poster”! Now I see that the Original Post is hidden at the moment)

I’ll put my hand up to defend the OP’s right to have a discussion about using AI and exploring Go themes in a “General Go Discussion” thread.

Crappy AI-generated images that show illegal Go positions are not “Go themes” and should, IMNVHO, not belong into General Go Discussion.

OK - move it to “General Chat” then :woman_shrugging:

It’s certainly more about “AI experimentation” than “Go”.

I don’t think there is a case for “you aren’t allowed to post images of illegal positions in OGS forums”.

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Well flagging for this alone seems exaggerated to me it’s easy to change a category as you have the capacity to do it.

But maybe there is another reason?

If I may observe: I think the offence is “AI generated imagery” and to a lesser extent “AI generated text”.

These tap into a broader concern, raised above, that use of AI by the human race is driving ecological as well as philosophical demise.

Sometimes just seeing AI generated art can trigger (offend) people who are really concerned about this.

For my part, I would argue having a discussion about that is better than banning it outright.

We’ve flushed out the ecological concern (above) and we’re touching now on the philosophical one. What even is the place of humans when AI can do everything we can? That’s scary - and drives offence: offence at the idea that anyone would support anything that direction.

I was pretty astonished to see what AI can do in music now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKxNGFjyRv0

… ironically, although the title says he thinks the artist sucks … the music that it made definitely does not suck. Unlike AI imagery, which still has a certain “something” that gives it away, I personally would not have been able to tell that the music was entirely AI just by listening.

At the same time, it would be hard to argue that we can’t tolerate the use of AI to generate images, while at the same time we use AI to generate the revenue that keeps the site running, and the code that it runs on…

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I still own the right and disagree with all what emerged after let say the years 2000-2010.
Everything seems moving in some direction I don’t really like be in social and politics. AI research out of social control, rise of fakes, authoritarism, lack of empathy…

I hope all will finish well

In a more practical standpoint, there is a fine line right now hard to judge between AI-generated slob and spam.

Imagine someone created an agent that automatically replies to any post on the forum, but instead of the traditional spam, they are context-dependent. If the generated content is long enough and contains hallucinations throughout. Can it be classified as “spam-bot”? Now, imagine 10 such agents which can all be prompted differently, with added generated images or even videos. The servers would be forced to host more and more of them, where any post will be bombarded with pages of these “AI-generated spams” before any real human can reply, where the function of the forum is buried under these slobs.

One of my friends who works in a government agency is already dealing with this type of problem, where a citizen used to be able to report illegal activities for import and export goods for bounties; now they are facing lots of generated images and fake reports which completely change the procedure to authenticate claims, or risk losing a channel that supposed to cooperate and share findings

The original post was flagged for three reasons.

Two of them were “off topic” and one was “spam”.

The original flag was responded to as “let’s put it in a better category (it was in Teaching) and wait and see”.

Personally, I’d be pretty impressed by the OP’s spam-bot, if it really is spam. It’s gone as far as sending personal messages asking about subscription options.

I think the one place where it has “failed” is not recognising the ataried stone. That for sure raises a question about whether there’s a person here. But we’re hardly “flooded with posts that we can’t manage”.

While I don’t doubt that some organisations are already under attack as you describe, I don’t think we’re at the point where we have to close a thread immediately upon seeing that it has AI generated content in it. Afterall, we’ve tolerated this one for ages. We even tolerated it in “Go Discussion” :wink:

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The title itself mention AI. No secret use here.

The category could be a debate. Using AI (like we use a pen) the OP is still trying to share some teaching experience. It’s up to the readers (ultimately to the mods) to draw a line between teaching and AI experimentation.

Spam? I don’t see the point here, where is spam?

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Thanks for all your thoughts, everyone. As someone who’s not really into tech or AI, I’ve found this journey a bit challenging, (or in fact, so overwhelming at first).

I’m fine with anything from teaching to general discussions or just chatting.

What I really want to do is learn Go (starting with bots, thanks to the AlphaGo movie) and brush up on my math/English.

I’ve been out of the loop for a very long time, and I need these skills to get back on track (actually AI skill = survival skill, both in my life and my career).

And just to be fair to AI, here are the last two arguments from my AI assistant/co-creator, KK, which I actually think are pretty solid:

I also need to put me back into a happy state of mind (post-Covid and post AI), and I need at least several dose of laughter every day.

So if some of you are still interested, I will continue to share the journey of EL EL EN EN, her Sensi, and KK, and #4, like this:

On old japanese painting, many times there are more as 19 lines
And not putting the stones exactly on the intersection is something appreciated in this culture to avoid the monotony.

But having stones fully surrounded on the board is a deal breaker.

Avoiding this is the first step to have something inspiring. Next is to have some credible shapes as a result from a game. Big work in view

Putting aside this, I am mostly interested by your emotion and discoveries I mean something that you really went through. AI could help a bit to illustrate these but I am afraid you start to step aside, following the AI suggestions instead of your own experience

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Indeed looks like 20x19 and the stones maybe even covering two intersections.

Imagine if it didn’t look realistic :slight_smile:

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Uhm.

I can object to using a hammer as an instrument for murder while not objecting to its use as a tool for driving a nail into wood, can’t I?

That’s a really great point.

There are (at least) two arguments against the content of this thread.

One is that “this thread is murdering the image of Go” by presenting AI generated pictures.

It’s fine to object to yucky pictures of Go, but flagging the thread or asking for it not to be allowed would not be consistent with far worse slaughter previously, and (as has been shown) not consistent with general go art.

Reducing the risk of these images being perceived as “representing Go” by putting them in General Chat seems fair.

OTOH, there’s been the objection about “general use of AI because it will destroy the planet and/or humans”.

This is the argument that is not consistent with supporting OGS. OGS is a big user of AI. It’s hard to say “I’m OK with triggering AI reviews and AI translations through my use of OGS, and I’m OK with using features that were coded by LLMs, but I’m not OK with you generating the occasional image with it, because the latter will destroy us”.

I’m harping on about this only because the use of AI has already become so pervasive that we are likely unaware of it. The occasional eye-sore AI image is a side show.

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to some can be heart-giggling to others (with limited resources):

As @Groin is fully aware of my own journey, may I also share that this thread is MY own coping mechanism with, and to better understand, the AI Tsunami going on?

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Two months later, half-machine half-human EL EL EN EN finally grasped why her Sensi had insisted she play with humans.

The OGS AI Expert Team might just scratch their heads reviewing this match.

For EL EL EN EN, the outcome brought laughter, gratitude, and a full acceptance of her White opponent’s peculiar and persistent nature.

That unknown player, indeed, lost in style.

世人都奇奇怪怪 闹哄哄
Shìrén dōu qí qí guài guài nào hōng hōng
People are strange and noisy

幸好还有温暖可停留
Xìnghǎo hái yǒu wēnnuǎn kě tíngliú
Luckily, there’s still warmth we can dwell in

有可以牵的衣袖
Yǒu kěyǐ qiān de yīxiù
A sleeve we can gently tug on

有人与你心相通 也懂你的不同
Yǒu rén yǔ nǐ xīn xiāng tōng,
yě dǒng nǐ de bù tóng

Someone who connects with your heart,
and understands your uniqueness*

*Extract from Guardians of Dafeng OST
世内桃源 (Paradise Within the World) – Xu Ziwei

(Story to be continued)

White stones are lacking of efficiency.

If this is not clear, you can take them all away and then back on the board in some different configuration which will give you some bigger amount of territories as zero here

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@Groin White lacks of efficiency and full of incurable cuteness, don’t you think?

I have had a look at their ongoing games on OGS, I will try to explain that they can lower the dose of cuteness during our 3rd match:)

*EL EL EN EN to her Sensi:

"Look, GAJ Pie Master has a Protégé named DiscoBot, and they just helped recap my 2 Go months with 5 identities:

I may be wrong but discobot has nothing to do with AI

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