I find this discussion weirdly confusing despite having made major contributions to the rengo documentation. I don’t see any need for a “leave” button or a “team resignation” button in casual rengo. The proper departure is by resignation. If other teammates agree that the game is lost, they too can resign in order. If everyone resigns, game over.
Meanwhile, timing out is not only rude, but is a massive imposition on the other players, who must wait for the game to proceed. Games can be delayed for weeks or even months if the team is large. This is a problem only because OGS has given up censuring people for timing out of correspondence games. An ancillary bad effect of this policy is that it is now impossible, as a practical matter, for mods to proactively discover players who cheat by leveraging the serial timeout rule, which therefore should be abolished.
The implication here is that someone “resigned” from a casual rengo game because they thought that their team was in a losing position. But it might easily be because they got bored with the game or something.
I think the whole point of “casual” rengo was that it didn’t imply a requirement of devotion to the whole game as players can drop out/leave/stop playing/whatever you want to call it, without affecting the result of the game.
People who cannot abide others in a rengo game resigning other than from a lost position or timing out should be playing strict rengo it seems to me.
I don’t understand your argument at all. Resigning because you think the game is lost does not preclude resigning because you are bored. I thought the latter was obvious; but okay, you have forced me to state the obvious. In both conditions, the proper way to leave a game is by resigning; timing out is rude and an imposition on the rest of the players (if I need to itemize the obvious exceptions, such as being dead, I will do so).
there should be 2 different buttons.
first one to press if you think that your team is losing
second one to press if you just want to leave
they should send different messages in chat
you are not going to say “I resign” in friendly game in Go club when you suddenly have emergency phone call
but on OGS you left to wonder if your opponent left because thought they were losing or because other reason
So it makes sense to make it in even game too. To improve experience of player who not leaves.
In my view it doesn’t matter if you leave because you’re bored or because you think it’s hopeless, point is you just left the game. Now if you’d like a way to tell your team that you quit because it’s hopeless, then just say it in the chat. You don’t have to wait for an answer.
But it does seem to matter to some. If I understood they would rather their record showed B+Boredom rather than B+Resignation…
I’m being frivolous ofc but I can see that there is a difference between saying “I resign” i.e. concede defeat or saying “I’m leaving” i.e. I’m stopping playing, without taking a view on winning or losing.
I would prefer to know if my opponent resign because I played good or “for other reason”. It may be useful for statistics and training purposes. Opponents able to write but they often don’t. If it will become VERY easy to them to send that info, then those who don’t talk may start to send that info by just clicking single button once.
I’ve now been in quite many corr rengos, and almost all of those have had some people timing out or resigning super early. Actually it seems like most users who join open corr rengo challenges will indeed time out early on,
I think there are valid reasons for resigning early, for example “losing intrest of the game” is perfectly good reason for resigning, we cannot force anyone to be part of a game against their will. And if they’re not going to play, its lot nicer for the other players if they simply resign instead letting their time run out.
Also many times new accounts have joined those open rengo challenges, probably assuming that the game would start asap, but when the game has started weeks or even months later their account has already been abandoned. Of course i’m not saying that all new accounts are abandoned after a day or two, but quite large portion of those are.
Because the high timeout rate, i now feel like it would make much more sense to have rengos being “casual” by default. Maybe instead having checkbox for [ ] Casual it might be better to have checkbox for [ ] Strict timeout-rule for cases where the organiser really wants the game to end with the first timeout.
Is there really a high timeout rate, except on crazy rengo with 100 players? Have you experienced a high timeout rate even at more reasonable player counts?
Yeah, basically all corr rengos which have started from open challenges have had some timeouts. I guess theres been some exeptions, but usually someone times out before everyone has had the chance to play a stone :<
In the large-team casual rengos that I’m in, we use 12h per move simple time. This is a crazy-harsh time - no player knows when they’ll be on turn next, so of course no player can guarantee that they’ll log in to OGS during the right 12h period some unspecified time in the next months. But we use this time because we know that there will be a lot of dropouts, so we don’t want to wait too long per dropout. We use this time setting as an acknowledgement that there will be dropouts, and the time-setting itself causes many more dropouts that wouldn’t have happened otherwise, and that’s okay.
But for small-team rengo, if you don’t expect dropouts, then you don’t need to use such a harsh time-setting, and if you use a reasonable time-setting, then the time-setting shouldn’t cause dropouts. In fact the few small-team rengos that I’ve been in have ended normally by both teams passing. But they had started not long after the challenge was created, so there was not much risk of a new user joining the game and then leaving OGS before the game starts.
Ahh! By “high timeout rate” i didnt meant that most players have timed out from a game (tho that also happens a lot), but i meant that in most rengo games ive been part of, at least 1 person has timed out. Thats enough to end the game under the strict rengo rules.
I’m not perfectly sure, but my gut-feeling is that the only corr rengos where no-one has timed out have been invite-only games with ogs regulars, and with games which have created by open challenges at /play page there has always somebody who has timed out before scoring
