Good that you hedged on more than one possibility.
If tengen does not win, I think we can expect @Haze_with_a_Z to propose that move again.
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If it comes with a nice drawing, I will be very pleased
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Which color do you think is currently leading in this game?
- Black is leading
- White is leading
- Roughly even
0 voters
What is/are your objective(s) in this game?
- Black winning
- White winning
- A close game
- A blowout
- Both colors making the best moves
- Both colors making bad moves
- An aesthetically pleasing game
- A calm, peaceful game
- A violent, fighting game
- Simple lines of play
- Complex lines of play
- Learning and improving
- Trolling and annoying others
- Rules and voting systems pedantry
- Just to have fun
0 voters
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YOU STOLE MY IDEA 
I wanted to open a poll after each closing poll to ask who do you think is leading
I was really going to do it after this next closing…
I think it’s worth it’s penny.
(The second one is yours)
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Someone has to 
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@groin why do you feel that White is winning? As far as I can tell, pretty much all of Black’s moves so far got your vote, except C12 at C11.
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Because I like too much influence maybe?
Well it’s a very very thin feeling.
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I dunno why you deleted your post, with edit I was so curious and sorry for it but I can’t resist to say that my curiosity was fullfilled, I found it was very relevant and interesting. (Just in case you can un-delete a post)
I can undelete it but I thought it probably wasn’t relevant until it got to the point where r14 vs q15 discussion was relevant. Also sent it to @bugcat directly instead in case they thought it was useful.
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It’s not that we are flooded by suggestions in ten moves! You can consider later moves as good argument for the move we are looking at, they are not disconnected.
No, really interesting, no joke.
You didn’t send me anything afaik
That’s odd, because I definitely typed and sent two messages, but they’re not in my sent messages either.
Well anyway The all-in-one democratic game. [The game]
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Correct 
Also who would wanna play a game like this to try and annoy/troll others? Like that feels like a waste of time, especially since like this is decided by everyone. If I wanted to troll and pass, others would have to agree for it to happen. No one should be trolling, and if that was someone’s goal, then they are kinda failing.
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R14
Q15
K10 (edited, sorry)
Anyone has something else in his sleeve?
Well still have a few hours to think… Gonna have some sleep 5:30am here
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I think it’d be a great idea for us to properly discuss Q15 and R14 in this position~
Certainly it’s a much more interesting choice than the current S15 vs whatever.
By the way, both professional games have only two pushes on the side, not three (ie. they follow the Ishida diagram).
3 Likes
I should also say, to start with, that for a long time now I’ve considered R15 itself to be a bit of a “special-case move”. So either I’m wrong about that, which is probable, or we’re in a somewhat unusual variation anyway and shouldn’t be too stiff-collared about joseki.
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Not fully agree, we got for example a nice refutation of P17 by Martin.
Special case here seems just about the precise situation where we are. Black has no real better alternative as to be on that right side.
Starting a fight doesn’t look to be fair, going more for the corner and let white build a wall, look a disaster too.
Well, I still think that we may have been better off with the “normal” R17 instead of R15. But arguing about moves that have already been played is a waste of time.
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After Q15, I believe the most likely follow-up is Q16, R14, S15, R17, S14 resulting in the following position:
which is the start of a fight.
Back at the current position, if black plays R14, white has the choice to push through with S15, black has to cut with Q15, white Q16 and ultimately we are headed for the same position as above. Whites other choice as an answer to R14 is Q15, Black S15, resulting in this position:
… which can also happen if black starts with S15, white Q15 and black plays R14, a second hane. I believe this is playable for black, but the extention at S14 might be preferable (I refer to the sequence given by @mark5000)
So it all depends on how to evaluate the fighting position. I believe white is better off there, but I might change my mind if someone comes up with a good variation.
1 Like