The ruleset of the game should be easier to see

At online-go.com, it would be great if the Ruleset was listed somewhere when playing, as a reminder (for example, maybe put “Japanese” or “Chinese” just underneath the Komi reminder near White’s score)

While I understand we should see the rules when accepting the game… if playing several games in a day (some Chinese and some Japanese) one can easily forget which setting it is, and especially true if playing a long game. It’s a pet peeve of mine to keep having to click Info.

Yes, I could just fill all dame no matter what, but don’t want to waste my opponent’s time if it’s Japanese rules.

And actually, I would prefer to have this requested text showing Komi and Ruleset even in Zen mode.

6 Likes

I moved your post to this topic where there has been some recent discussion about this idea! :slight_smile:

Personally, I think having this info in Zen mode is going too far, but as a rules nerd I like the idea of the rules being visible in the normal view.

7 Likes

Technically, under Japanese rules, one should fill all of the dame that one can, in order to prevent non-seki groups from being counted as seki (which would nullify their territory). Of course, players often take the informal shortcut of not filling in the dame, when using Japanese rules.

Under various area scoring rules (e.g., Chinese, AGA, etc.), it is possible to leave an even number of inconsequential dame unfilled without changing the outcome. Inconsequential means that the filling these won’t require any further defensive moves/captures and all that is left in the game is to alternatingly fill them.

4 Likes

There is a bit of consensus on this layout

@Fantactic: Do you like it too?

2 Likes

I love it! This is exactly what I was referring to. Is this just a “mockup” and not actually in place right now?

2 Likes

If it’s not too late for a suggestion, if the plan is to use 2-3 letter abbreviations, to use the standard ISO abbreviations:

  • Japan/Japanese: JP/JPN
  • China/Chinese: CN/CHN
  • Korea/Korean: KR/KOR
  • New Zealand: NZ/NZL

Probably for ING and AGA, those are more appropriate than country abbreviations

11 Likes

Hover over it should give a tooltip that explains with a longer phrase like “Japanese rules”, “Chinese rules”, etc.

4 Likes

Note that clicking in that area already pops up a widget with rules-specific scoring information. Maybe the name of the rules could go in there, too.

3 Likes

Easter egg idea: if you double-click on the rules name, little Japanese/Chinese/etc flags rain down like confetti over the screen.

:jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp:
:jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp:
:jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp:
:jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp: :jp:

8 Likes

The hover tooltip on Japanese rules shows all the edge case diagrams on how scoring works :slight_smile:

5 Likes

Looks like it happened!!

Thanks @dexonsmith!

16 Likes

:partying_face: Thanks @dexonsmith !!

Super convenient and looks very nice !! :slight_smile:

7 Likes

Heh, well, if you ever play a handicap game with more than 50 stones (but why???), it gets a bit uglier, since Unicode runs out of circled numbers. Falls back to the typewriter trick of using parentheses for 51+ (as in (51)).

12 Likes

By the way, is the ‘?’ meant to display anything in hover like “Japanese rules, handicap 0”?
(currently it doesn’t display anything)

A beginning player who isn’t Japanese/Chinese asked me recently, confused, why their name had the JP/CN underneath it :sweat_smile:

4 Likes

Well, the “?” has always been there, I think because that area of the player card is clickable (clicking reveals/hides a simple score breakdown).

Good point that the codes aren’t necessarily obvious, especially to beginners who aren’t aware that there are multiple rulesets. I’ve sent up a pull request that says “Rules: New Zealand” if you’re hovering over the “NZ” (or whichever ruleset it is). I expect it’ll land in the next few days.

7 Likes

I found this confusing, seeing JP on a load of black players. Was it their initials? I never even imagined it could be an abbreviation of Japanese. The komi is something associated with the white player so makes sense to be on the white player card, but the ruleset is a property of the game not the black player. It was only once I had a handicap game I realised what it was.

2 Likes

Same!

I’m in 1-1 discussion with dexonsmith on this, talking through options. Although the people in this thread know what those abbreviations are, I don’t think it’s obvious to anyone else, and for OCD people having the ruleset in the black player card is just “all wrong” :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

If anyone has a great idea how we can get the ruleset to show up on a mobile in a good place, but not in a player card, that’d be awesome.

It’s almost as if we need a third column where the player-cards are, containing “important game information”

I say this because it’s horrible to have to add another row below the player cards to include ruleset, but that only leaves the area currently occupied by the player cards as the candidate for where to put this info… (which is why it ended up on the black player card).

3 Likes

I admit they look like initials to me too :confused:.

Two things are added by the PR I mentioned above:

  • Hovering over the rules code will show “Rules: Japanese” (no help on mobile though)
  • Clicking on the score pop-up will show the rules there

I think those changes will reduce confusion. I think it might be worth trying for a day.

But I also wonder if we need the rules code at all if we have those two things. An option to consider:

  • Remove the 2-3 letter code
  • Still show rules if you hover
  • Still include rules in the score pop-up

As long as you include mobile phones UI…

Well, I don’t think the hover interactions work on mobile (at least, I don’t think). But, you could also access the rules by tapping on the score pop-up (the pop-up you get when you tap on the bottom of the player cards). You’d have to tap it, but it does work on mobile. (To be clear, the PR that puts them there hasn’t landed yet…)

WDYT?

Three other possibilities:

  • Duplicate the ruleset in both player cards (there’s usually space next to komi). IMO, this is worse than having it just in black.
  • Immediately below the player cards, have the text “Rules: name-of-rules”. This seems like the most obvious option, actually… I imagine this was considered and rejected in the past for taking up valuable real estate, but maybe it’s worth reconsidering? It’s clear, and it doesn’t have to take up a lot of space.
  • Instead of the ruleset code use “:scroll:” or something, as a hint that you can click/hover to see the rules.