Werewolf Go Game 1

[Barbanaira]

And I solidify my base instead of seeking glourious battle, playing on the 3.3-point.

https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=cehddedjdggagjijcfjdcjjbkcg&bs=13

… If someone could remind me please how the board app works?

[martin3141]

Update:

Next to move: @Jon_Ko

[Vsotvep]

@richyfourtytwo

I’d say the first rebel is found. Also the decision to play there makes it likely that one of the neighbours is a rebel too.

I will assume MystWalker is another rebel or I am the amnesiac. Since I see absolutely no reason for Leira to make this move as a settler, they have nothing to lose by revealing whether I am the amnesiac: the amnesiac can be the most deadly weapon against the rebels, since it can fill eyes without being aware of hurting their own team.

As long as I have no confirmation of being the amnesiac (either through one of the three rebels claiming I am or through logical deduction based on capturing), I consider it more likely that I am a settler and will do my best to fight Leira and keep coming up with strategies aiding the settlers.

---

I still believe everyone should aim at making 3 eyes, since testing is vital for settler survival. @Leira is a clear rebel and can be ignored for the purpose of finding out who is who. Since no counter claim is made for being the spy, I believe we can leave yebellz out as well, so settlers wouldn’t lose a turn while the obvious rebel hermit can do as he please.

I also suggest to brand any other players ignoring this as rebels: deviating from a common plan without discussion first cannot be excused for any reason, and any settler doing so is not acting in a way to aid in achieving a settler victory.

[Vsotvep]

@Jon_Ko

May I ask the Hermit @Leira to reveal some more of their reasoning behind those uncooperative choices?

I believe there is no reason for any settler to want to hear any of the treason flowing out of dirty rebels.

Careful what you wish for…

---

@MystWalker, I believe we should find out whether one of us wears the rebel colours, by me playing C11 and you playing B10. For the settlers this is good information, and for the rebels, it seems that this would be a pretty bad move, creating an empty triangle.

[yebellz]

The three regular rebels know who the four rebels are, but are uncertain which is the amnesiac, and the amnesiac is in the dark about their own identity. Ideally, they would like to subtly signal to the amnesiac somehow, before the amnesiac is eventually publicly revealed by testing. However, we settlers must be very careful about not over reading into potential signals, since it would be an even bigger gain for the rebels to give the false impression of amnesia onto an innocent settler.

I think Leira’s moves and disposition clearly intend to signal two things: 1. Leira is a rebel, 2. Leira is not the amnesiac, which gives the other two regular rebels some hint about who the amnesiac might be.

The settlers should firmly believe that they are a settler unless it is irrefutably demonstrated that they have amnesia. I expect the rebels to make some potentially confusing moves, which might aim to fool some of us into believing we have amnesia and undermine the settlers’ plans. It could even be possible that they might outright self-reveal and falsely claim that an innocent is the amnesiac, if that might help them sway the action at some crucial point. We have to consider the possibility of such bluffs and mind games.

[yebellz]

@Vsotvep

@MystWalker, I believe we should find out whether one of us wears the rebel colours, by me playing C11 and you playing B10. For the settlers this is good information, and for the rebels, it seems that this would be a pretty bad move, creating an empty triangle.

I think this is a very good proposal. @MystWalker, please follow through with this plan, or propose something else and explain your reasoning.

My personal hunch is that @MystWalker is a rebel and @Vsotvep is a settler. @MystWalker, if you are innocent, then this is the perfect opportunity to prove it by helping to capture a black stone.

@MystWalker, I would also be very interested in hearing the reasoning behind the first move that you played.

[Jon_Ko]

@Jon_Ko

This must be what Mars at the head of the Charioteer was trying to tell me. Now who is symbolizing Mars and who is symbolizing the Charioteer?

I’ve got something mixed up, Mars is not at the head of the Charioteer but at the head of Cetus the whale—or sea-monster, depending on who you ask. When I was trying to figure out what that means and how the Duchess Gia fits into all of this, I’ve noticed the little Triangulum above Mars and Aries. So the triangle of Mars, Cetus and Aries undeniably points out that the upper right corner is important to the future of Gobania, something is going on there. Anyway for now I’ll try to follow up on the Merchant’s plan and start to build three eyes on the right side. I’m continuing with L9.

Next is @NeilAgg.

[NeilAgg]

I still have no clue what to make of all this so I might as well try to make a base.
Gold plays C6:

Next is @Vsotvep

[Vsotvep]

@NeilAgg, why are you specifically playing differently from my suggested roadmap?

[richyfourtytwo]

Grabbing more space for the rebels.

[Vsotvep]

That’s what it feels like to me as well…

Deviation from a common plan is no problem, as long as there is a legitimate reason for it, and we can find a better solution by discussion and working together. Taking solitary action cannot be condoned. Moreover, settlers should under any cost avoid being suspicious, since falsely labelling a settler as a rebel is a big problem for the settlers; bigger than not finding a hidden rebel if you’d ask me.

I really want to know why @NeilAgg did not play according to the plan. Lack of explanation would explain enough on its own.

[NeilAgg]

@Vsotvep

@NeilAgg, why are you specifically playing differently from my suggested roadmap?

Oh, I did not realize we were following that since it seems people are playing differently that it already. You also said you were going to revise it. Sorry for the confusion.

[Vsotvep]

I find that a flimsy excuse. If you’re not sure about what to do as a settler, ask first before moving.

---

Here is how I currently see the worst-case situation, with the rebel team in Black and the settler team in White:

Here Leira, MystWalker, Barbanaira and NeilAgg form the rebel team, where I believe MystWalker to be the amnesiac (or I could be the other amnesiac, which would be slightly worse for the rebels, but still pretty good for team rebels overall). The reason I suspect Barbanaira, is their initial reluctance to accept my plan on grounds of it being boring, but there are other people behaving suspiciously too, so no certainty there. However, Barbanaira being a rebel would be a pretty large problem considering the position of the board.

I still see playing B10 for @Mystwalker and C11 for myself as the best moves with regard to team settlers, and will go ahead with that after hearing from the other people who are currently writing messages.

[Vsotvep]

Perhaps we can gain some information by having @Gia play M10 and ask @NeilAgg or @Barbanaira to throw-in at L10?

[NeilAgg]

@Vsotvep

I find that a flimsy excuse. If you’re not sure about what to do as a settler, ask first before moving.

OK, I will do that for future moves.

@Vsotvep

Perhaps we can gain some information by having @Gia play M10 and ask @NeilAgg or @Barbanaira to throw-in at L10?

I am willing to throw in at L10.

[richyfourtytwo]

I’m fine with that.

I’d play J10 next, which is still in line with the original plan and might allow us to quickly build more throw-in opportunities? Any objections?

Edit: This was meant specifically to be about your last paragraph. Somehow I messed up citing that.

[Leira]

@Jon_Ko

May I ask the Hermit @Leira to reveal some more of their reasoning behind those uncooperative choices? “Let the Hand Talk do the talking” is rather incomprehensible to me.

Leira entered the tent that’d been setup for the occasion, along with a young deacon that looked a little too intimidated by all the military presence. Leira made a reverence to his host and they all sat down.

Translator: Thank you, Astrologer Ko , for your hospitality. My name is Ümlaut^*, I will do the translation.

Leira: [signals to start]

Translator: I’m pleased to see that some of you have come. As you well know, I have taken vows of silence (which I am quite often asked to break). Of course, some amongst the Nine would rather conveniently prefer that I remained so.

Translator: Your question is simple, and has an equally simple answer. Both Merchant @Vsotvep 's and Viscount @yebellz 's are not to be trusted.

Translator: Make no mistake, the rebels all act as one army, even if one of their members does so unwittingly. They wish for only two things: to know who’s the traitor amongst them, and to face a timid opponent. They already hold 19 hectares of land somewhere in the vicinity of gobania, ready to attack. The settlers are up against terrible odds.

Translator: Yebellz made the unilateral decision to reveal who had been infiltrated in the enemy’s ranks—instigated by Richard XLII (@richyfourtytwo )—. There are two possibilities, both equally destructive to the settlers chances of winning this war. First, Yebellz is true to heart; a mistake in my opinion, since it accomplishes the rebels first goal. Or second, Yebellz was trying to fish out the true spy; you better pray then that he did not manage to accomplish his goal, so the spy is either me or Little @MystWalker , because the rebels cannot be certain of whether is first or second that holds true.

Translator: As for Merchant Vsotvep’s plan, it may seem good superficially, but it has several flaws that I’m sure you all have concerns about. There are, again, two possibilities: First, Vsotvep truly believes himself a settler; in this case, he knows he might have to change his allegiance down the road, so he designed the plan to be able to succeed, but also to be able to fail; either way, he should come out on top. Second, Vsotvep knows himself a rebel, in which case he designed the plan only to be able to fail.

Translator: From my perspective it is very simple. We all know such a plan doesn’t work. You yourself expected it to go wry sooner or later. The purpose of such proposal is not to do with the plan itself, but to have everyone doing his bidding, and marching against everyone who does not. Either way, he wins. Which is fine if you are on the same faction as he is, but, are you willing to bet your life that you truly are on the same side? At the end, you might find out that your friends and family were conspiring with the other faction, and have your head on the chopping block regardless.

Translator: There is also the more damning detail that Vsotvep has convinced all of you that there are nine separate banners working independently, where in truth there are only two.

Translator: This is not like other perils we’ve faced, where you could be executed, or your armies defeated. I assure you that I did not send a proselytizer to die in a forgotten corner of the world. He’ll live, as long as his allies live.

Translator: Somehow, I feel that those who do not acknowledge the true nature of this war are not to be trusted. Our numbers are almost equal, and there is no point in making a minstrel of oneself as an undying servant of Her Majesty. I may be at her service now, but if the Church commands me otherwise, I’ll do the Church’s bidding.

Translator: And the same is true for all the rest of us, so called loyal settlers of The Queen.

Translator: Therefore, if you wonder what sense does it make to have sent my proselytizer alone, I’ll answer that he’s not alone. I may not know who my allies are, however, I’m willing to wager that Vsotvep and MystWalker are not on the same side. Either way, my faction gains a foothold.

The deacon was sweating profusely. He expected his tongue to be cut off at any moment. Leira made a gesture.

Translator: Do you have any more questions? Otherwise, I’m dying for a nice cup of tea.

---

* ahem PhD ahem

[Jon_Ko]

I’m wondering, whether it would be better to postpone J10 until we see what happens with the throw in at L10.

[richyfourtytwo]

I’d love to wait, but I’ll have to move somewhere. H11 might be a similar alternative, maybe grabbing a bit more space at the same time. My gut feeling is that we might want throw in opportunities soon, so if I move entirely elsewhere that might be too slow for that purpose. But I’m listening to other concrete suggestions of course.

[yebellz]

@Leira

so the spy is either me or Meister @MystWalker , because the rebels cannot be certain of whether is first or second that holds true.

At the beginning of the game, the three regular rebels were given a list of five names:

@martin3141

3x Rebel
Places stones of hidden colour “Rebel”
Is told to be a Rebel.
Is told the set of players whose secret role is among the following: Rebel, Spy, Amnesiac

Thus, the rebels already know that I am telling the truth of being the spy. Even in your hypothetical scenario where I was a rebel, and that the real spy was either MystWalker or Leira, the rebels would most likely already know which of those two were the spy, since it’s unlikely that they are both on the list.

I (and I believe most others) find it very unconvincing that Leira would not be able to make these basic logical conclusions…
The most reasonable explanation for these faulty arguments is what we’ve already concluded, that Leira is a rebel grasping desperately after being put into a bad position.