Important Philosophical Questions + POLLS

Ah, that has been true in various times, but the biggest issue today is that everyone thinks themselves intelligent (and thus oppressed by the “imbeciles”). :sweat_smile:

I was watching a post-midnight TV football show when I was a university student, around 2003, and the host (may he rest in peace) was known for his total lack of political correctness, the football fans that called were unrully and the show had a big red “X” on the top left corner of the TV screen, usually reserved for things that you had to be 18+ to watch on TV (which were very rare).

Amid the arguing with the usual morons that called him, it was a “derby night” so it was worse than usual (so, even more “fun” to watch), so at some point, the host lights a cigarette, takes a deep draw from it, stares at the ceiling, exhales and delivered a quote that I scribbled down to my “quote diary” that I had at the time:

"Doing this show all those decades, and even despite all the hardships of life, I’ve come to realise there is only one thing worse than being an asshole. And that is being an asshole while you think of yourself as being the total opposite of an asshole. pause to smoke - exhales
Life cannot, no, YOU cannot get worse than that. Next phonecall… "

Little did he know that this calamity, today, describes the average person rather than his half-drunk audience of late-night football hooligans, and, slowly but surely, it is even discribing the “above average” person as well… :sweat_smile:

I think I should really find the time to make true of the promise I made last year to translate Lembesis’ small treatise on “the extreme societal significance of stupid people in modern life”… so many things to do, so little time…

Looking through the internet, it is probably a “misattributed quote” and probably Dostoevsky never said/wrote those (exact) words. At best it is part of a real quote that was modernised or just a usual case of “let’s put a famous person’s face with our quote to make it viral”. At least, in this case it was a quote that was worth the trouble…

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In a public transport vehicle I prefer to sit …

  • in a forwards seat
  • in a backwards seat
  • on the ground
0 voters

.

Where’s the option to stand?

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You tell me. Do you dislike being presented with a non exhaustive set of options? Guess then I should also add “I don’t use public transport”.

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No preference, I take a seat whenever I see a free one.

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The Red/Blue button thought experiment reminded me of a literally fantastic “philosophical” text that I had read back in 2002.

It was not written by a philosopher, but it was made as a “response” to the TV fad of those days, which was Reality TV shows which put a few people, closed them in a house and profitted off the generated drama (things like “Big Brother”, “the Farm”, “survivor” etc).

A lot of people used to laugh at the contestants claiming that they sold off and became a “ridicule” just for the hopes of gaining a monetary price. This bloke came up with this (I just did the translation now, as well as some slight changes):



Suddenly we’ve all become compasionate.
No to war, no to blood, what did the innocent’s do, burn the people that kill innocents, burn any interests and all that stuff.

But let us not go that far.
Look at that poor child that is begging on the streets, when in fact it is being exploited by its parents.
Look at that poor old stooping lady, she just fell down by the weight of the supermarket bags. Where are its relatives to care for her?
We live in a world full of evil, where most people are only looking out of their own personal interests. Thankfully we, the people that still retain compation and empathy, also exist. And in general we do not let money blind our morals and we do not let our own self-interest take over our lives and so forth…

…naaaah, who are we kidding? Compassion? Let’s be honest for a bit.

Scene 1
You see that lady with that small dog and you go talk to her and you ask her very nicely if she can let you kick her dog for 50 euros.
– “Our you out of you mind???” She replies indignantly.
But you insist:
– I will give you 100 euros to kick your dog.
– You are certainly insane.
– Fine. I’ll offer you 200 euros.
– What are you trying to pull off here?
1000 euros.
– 1000 euros!? When you say kick, how hard will you kick it?
– Not very hard. 1500 Euros final offer.
– I am speechless. You are mad, but that’s a lot of money for a small kick. Ok…
kicking sound

Scene 2
– Hey you!
– Yes?
– Can I spit on you?
– What?
– I’ll give you 1000 euros to spit on you.
– Get the f- out of here. Not even with a ten thousand euros.
– Ok, then I’ll give 20000 euros to spit on you
– 20000 euros?? Just like that?
– Yup!
– Ok, but do it quickly so noone notices.
spitting sound

Scene 3
You are in a town square where families are enjoying the sunny day.
– Hello
– I’ll give you 10000 euros to kick that kid out of its bicycle.
– Oh, I see. Are you from Candid Camera?
– Nope.
– Then piss off you weirdo.
– I’ll give you 20000 euros to kick that kid out of its bicycle.
– Are you mentally ill or something?
– I’ll give you 30000 euros to kick that kid out of its bicycle.
– What did the kid do to you? What’d going on here?
– Fine. I’ll give you 40000 euros to kick that kid out of its bicycle.
– Why?
– None of your business. 50000 euros.
50000 euros! And what if the kids parents see and pursue me?
– Then take 50000 euros extra to pay for the fine, the reparations and the hospital bill. If you are not feeling any remorse, feel free to keep them all. There you go, 100000 euros.
– Oh my God… Ok…
crashing sound

Scene 4
You are at a mall with escalators.
– Hello.
– I am offering you 25000 euros to push an old lady down the escalators and make it look like an accident so you won’t go to jail. Pretend you slipped and fell on her or something.
– Get away from me you maniac!
– I’ll make it 50000 euros.
– I told you to leave me alone.
– Then I’ll offer you 100000 euros. Just to push an old lady down the escalators.
– A hundred thousand euros! Are you mad? What do you think I am, a hitman?
200000 euros and you know that no hitman is getting that kind of money.
– Two hundred thousand euros… Will the old lady die?
– I do not care. I just want you to push her. 300000 euros
– Are you waiting for a specific one or any old lady.
– Any will do. 350000 euros final offer or I’ll talk to some other fellow.
– Fine! Fine, give me that money…
no sound effect here, for proprietal reasons

Dear reader…
You can make a test to yourself. Or put that test to your friends next time you meet them ( @Regenwasser might like that idea. :slight_smile: ):

Ask yourself then:

  • How many euros would somebody have to offer me to stand there and get spat on?
  • How many euros would somebody have to offer me to kick someone elses dog?
  • How many euros would somebody need to offer me to push an old lady from an escalator?
  • How many euros would somebody need to offer me to rob a church?

… and so forth.
Do not put an upper limit on the amount of euros. As much as it takes. I think that you are now getting my point. It is not the amount of money that matters. What matters is that there is an amount after which you’d take the money and do it.

Who wouldn’t push an old lady (who would soon die anyway from old age or illness) from an escalator for, let’s say, 1.000.000.000 euros? :thinking:

Come on. Do not hurry to decry me as a scumbag, so that you can pretend to be valorous, because you’d be a hypocrite and we both know it.
You insist? Fine. Let’s continue. :slight_smile:

You might point out that in most cases the amount of money would be so large that it wouldn’t make practical sense. Who would ever give that much money for a thing like that?
Aaah, so your mind went there, eh? How sneaky of you. :wink:
But what if it wasn’t a hypothetical and someone did really offer you that kind of money?

You might say that you’ll feel guilt and you’d be tormented by regret afterwards.
Fine.
Double the money. Still no?
Triple it. Nothing?
Ok, 10x it or even 100x it. As much as you like.
Guilt? What guilt? Besides with that kind of money you could build ten nursing homes and benefit a thousand old women like the one you pushed. Are you fine now? Do we have a deal? Turns out, in the end, you might even convince yourself that you are doing the right thing. :sweat_smile:

This is why I am saying that there are not “good people and bad people”. Or “people that look only for their own interest or people that look after the common good”. The only thing that differs is the amount of money involved. Do not sit in front of the TV or the computer pretending to feel sorrow for the plight of others. At heart you are relieved that you are not in those people’s place and you are relieved that there is much worse things in life than what you are going through. The only reason you might be sorry is that other people will get the money and that’s fine…

And do not pretend to be people with high values and say “look at these clowns at those reality shows” or that “only an idiot would go to that show and become a laughingstock” or this and that… What amount of money would it take to convince you to take a dump at the middle of the town square during the town fair?

You might say “enough is enough”, but I unlike you, I have no problem to admit it. Yes, I’d take a dump in the middle of the town square during the town fair. And right in the middle of the Acropolis when it is full of tourists if need be. It would just take a lot lot lot lot lot more euro than you’d need to offer to most people.

Therefore the reasonable/logical conclusion is this:

“Your position in society and your moral superiority are directly analogous/equivalent to the amount of euros you’d have to be offered to take a dump in the middle of the Acropolis when it is full of tourists.”
(feel free to quote me on that)


– Published on Websloth around 2001
(I tried to see which of the two people that owned the website wrote it, but it is gone even from the wayback machine, so this now only exists in my own personal archive :confused: )

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Can we cross that by networth or disposible income? Offering a person at a minimum wage job 10k take a dump in the acropolis isn’t the same as offering it to a millionaire..

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I wouldn’t. I have a house and enough money to eat and buy things for everyday life, if you give me 1 billion I wouldn’t spend more than a few million, so anything above 10 million is like “infinity”.

No. Good actions don’t compensate bad actions. A philantrope who murders someone is still a murderer and still deserves years in prison.
The fact that the person is old and would die soon anyway doesn’t make a difference, imagine if it’s your mother.

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Good point. I guess we could consider something in terms of “euros offered compared as a percentage of your income” sort of thing. Though if we want to be honest it really doesn’t work for rich people anyway. If you have 1 billion euros, is there really any need for money? :thinking:

This was a text written in a “college humor website”, by college students, for college students (I ironed out the more offensive bits). I do not think that they ever thought that their audience had any money anyway. Indeed, the website lasted only for a couple of years, since they couldn’t even scrape enough money to pay for the hosting renewal. Oops. :sweat_smile:

So, while it is not “high philosophy” (though whoever wrote it might have been high at that point :P) and there are indeed loopholes in the whole thing, it does make a good point, if it is applied for regular people.

Funny enough, my father used to say a very similar thing that “everyone is honest, up to a certain price” and even had very practical examples of that idea. Imagine my surprise when I found that very attitute in a random text like that.

I’ve seen that idea at work, practically, myself, so while the text is not very robust/serious, the content is very practical, if applied in everyday life for everyday people.

You might find that Christianity disagrees with that. Not only with all the forgiveness/repent dogma and so forth, but with the whole “judgement after death” there is a very clear implication built into that system that, indeed, good actions and bad actions will balance out.
If not then we are screwed, because in the scriptures Jesus makes the famous quip “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” which was very apt indeed.

We are all sinners in one way or another, so if “Good actions don’t compensate bad actions” then thousands of years of dogma go down the drain and we all go to hell. Hardly a good prospect for us, but it also makes most of the church’s afterlife promises, moot.

You are correct on that and no argument there. :slight_smile:
I’d like to point out though that most rich people are into “philanthropy” just to balance out their sins/guilt or to, at the very least, generate some “good publicity” in order to make people to trust them enough for their next grift… ehm… I meant business venture, to work.

A lot of “philathropists” here whose names are on buildings, avenues and hospitals, where horrid crooks that if there was any real accountability they would have rotted in prison for life.

Instead they even got to have statues in main public squares which tourists come and take photos of. Such is life, I guess.

I’m not Christian, so I won’t discuss what Christianity says, but we can observe what people think about a deceased person, whether they were good people or not.

Personally I wouldn’t like to see public places named after such people. At least they were not murderers I hope?

In any case, Epstein was also a philanthropist but will be remembered as a bad guy, which is fair.

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A lot of people aren’t and a lot of people are. I am not a big believer myself either. :slight_smile:
I just pointed it out since even for the non-believers, a lot of “general religious dogma” is interwoven into our societies, anyway.

The idea of repenting, of turning a new leaf and of “redemption of ones soul/character” is not strictly religious after all.
Indeed, our penal system in “the West” depends upon that since, at least in theory, it is correctional and not retributional (there are places like that as well, but not in Europe).

So the whole idea that “Good actions don’t compensate bad actions” is not something that is really in vogue in the Western societies, as far as I can tell.

You’d hope, but life was, unfortunately, very cheap even up to a century ago… :confused:

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